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OUPower.com • View topic - low temperature, brute force electrolysis

low temperature, brute force electrolysis

This forum is for discussing anything related to electrolysis and electrolyzer designs.

low temperature, brute force electrolysis

Postby resident_genius » Sat Oct 04, 2008 12:28 am

well, i'm happy to report that i have succeeded. i went on a mission to create a low volt, brute force electrolyser, to eliminate the "steaming behemoth" title associated with said BF type 'lysers. so far into testing, my two chambers have not exceeded 95*F, my power supply is running at 94% effeciency which i'll digress isnt as good as a PWM. the power supply is running at a constant 135*F without a fan on it. all temperatures measured with a brand new IR thermometer, from radioshack.


the cells never see more than 2.5DCV each, so just about 50% of all watts consumed goes towards actually making HHO. in a single cell BF electrolyser, only about 9% (1.24/13.8=.089) goes towards making HHO.

why 2.5DCV? well, as chemelec will tell you, him and i spoke a few times on the subject. working with partially submerged 2" x 4" anodes and cathodes, it became necessary to raise the voltage to get any kind of amperage flow. as voltage is raised, the electrical resistance of water actually changes.

so! all in all, my system consumes 47 watts, the cells themselves receive

if you were to install this system on your car, you would be drawing 3.4ampheres from the vehicles system. the two cells in series is pulling about seven ampheres. havent tested it on a digital ammeter. but my analog one is of good quality. pretty nifty eh?

in order to raise the amps, i'd need a larger surface area for the electrodes. the electrodes are already only a millimeter or two apart and my water and KOH solution is strong, one cell in series pulls over 25 ampheres easily.

Image
a picture of my apparatus. messy i know, just finished assembly and started testing.

Image
radioshack 12volt (13.8 measured), 3 amp power supply. hiccup style overcurrent protection cuts off at 5 amps.

Image
12DCV input, 0-5DCV output, 25 amphere rated power supply. up to 94.3%effecient. this is the power supply that i'd posted about. its going through a all-night test tonight.

Image
DC Ammeter, analog of course. shows approx 7-8 amps. this is the amps that the cells are drawing.

Image

the two cells, four smacks plates each. that makes a total surface area of 64 square inches. optimum plate life would be (64*.25= 16amps), while pushing the cell a bit harder would be (64*.5=32 amps). more surface area is needed at such a low voltage to hit the higher amps.
where is the line between tinkerer and scientist, scientist and madman, madman and genius?

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Postby chemelec » Sat Oct 04, 2008 11:33 am

If you Email Me, the Word "ELECTRONIC" MUST appear in the Subject Line.

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Postby Hydrogenworld » Sat Oct 04, 2008 2:08 pm

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Postby AlaskaStar » Sat Oct 04, 2008 2:32 pm

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Postby Hydrogenworld » Sat Oct 04, 2008 2:57 pm

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Postby chemelec » Sat Oct 04, 2008 5:06 pm

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Postby resident_genius » Sat Oct 04, 2008 7:55 pm

where is the line between tinkerer and scientist, scientist and madman, madman and genius?

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Postby Hydrogenworld » Sat Oct 04, 2008 8:32 pm

resident_genuis (or chemelec), here´s a simple question.

Is vdc preferable when it comes to BFE? i´v always believed that ac is the one to go for.
What i am looking for is 1,24vdc (maximum load) ---> XXXvac (XXX = any voltage you need) ... whouldent it be possible to alternate the dc current to whatever ac current you need?... i´m fishing :D

[EX: i need 10 x 1,24v [10 = cells] = 12,4v tot. - that´s: 1,24vdc --> 12,4vac]

Does the voltage (energy) change when you switch between ac & dc or is it still going to be 1eV no matter what you do?

... hmm, i guess i should read some book´s :lol:
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Postby resident_genius » Sat Oct 04, 2008 9:54 pm

i'll admit that Gary is better suited to answer this question, however i'll take a shot at it, and if i'm wrong, gary- please correct me.

DC power is preferred during brute force electrolysis, however pulsing(PWM) is preferred to a straight current due to it controlling heating and amperage. also- if you beleive that a catalytic layer forms on the electrodes that increases efefciency, then AC is definately bad, since it will prevent any type of catalytic buildup on the plates.

1.24 is the supposed ideal voltage(per cell), however due to trial and error, i've found that using such a low voltage would require a fairly large anode and cathode size, and they would have to be very close together, otherwise the cell's resistance will be too high and not enough amps will be drawn.

2.0DCV per cell is a good place to be. working with small area anode and cathode required me to raise the operating voltage of this cell up to 2.5DCV just to pull 7-8 ampheres. one of these cells @ 5 DCV was easily pulling over thirty amps, but everything changes when two are wired in series.
where is the line between tinkerer and scientist, scientist and madman, madman and genius?

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Postby chemelec » Sat Oct 04, 2008 11:29 pm

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Postby Hybrid » Sun Oct 05, 2008 12:05 am

--Anthony
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Postby Hydrogenworld » Sun Oct 05, 2008 1:05 am

Two questions

1. Does anyone know what the acctual fracture point is? [Fracture point is when the intermoleculare bondings breaks] recuired energy. According to one researcher: To ionize (remove) a hydrogen atom from a water molecule, it takes 13.6 eV (electron volts) = 2.17895999 × 10-18 joules - you dont need to be a genuis to understand that this creates HO + H gas.

"Voltage breakdown" is not electrolysis! "Voltage breakdown" uses pure water as an insulator, whereas electrolysis requires electrolyte" .. now this is where it becomes confusing.

2. If voltage breakdown acctually works, why are we hung up on the electrolyser? (since this methode is greener)

I understand that now one knows the exact numbers (that´s a flat fact), but a few simple question ought to point us to the right answer, not necessary the ONE, but att least it should help us speculate less and get hold of some real data .. right? Becose there is a huge differense between 1,24V and 13,6V - this is not current, only voltage and here it commes.

How much amperage is required to perform work? ...

One answer arise ten questions, and i think this equation is true. :D i am sure keeping everybody busy!

Chemelec
I am talking about Truly AC (sinewave).
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