Gravity, the source of all energy?

[Cryptonic26]

Yea, yeah, "what does this have to do with Electrolysis, or hydrogen?" I hear you mumbling angrily to yourself.

Let me explain!

I propose that we take gravity out of the universe. yea, destroy the whole darned thing, and start over with giant lumps of hydrogen here and there. Just sitting there.. minding it's own business. rapidly cooling from the endless expansion that would take place, no light, no heat, no nothing. Just cold lumps of expanding atomic hydrogen.


If we suddenly introduce gravity into this the system, amazing things start to happen.
The hydrogen reverses it's expansion, it starts collecting into relatively dense spheres. As more and more hydrogen falls into these shrinking orbs, the pressures inside spikes to incomprehensible levels. You start seeing sparks of life emerge deep within this massive orb. Hydrogen fusing together.. releasing mass, and trying to throw it away as light of all things! From within, the cascade begins. Working it's way to the surface, this energy triggers fusion, releasing more energy, and so on, until there is nowhere else for this energy to go, but deep into space. The mother of all life support is born.

What does this imply exactly? What causes this 'spark of life' to occur?



The way I see it, there are two ways that this could go, maybe both.

1. Collectively, a 'lump' of hydrogen has a specific measure of heat when it is born. expansion and contraction dictate the measure of heat per a given volume. So, expanding will reduce the total available heat per cubic meter, while contracting will increase the available heat per cubic meter.

When the hydrogen vapor starts contracting, and the pressures start building, it's pushing all that ambient heat towards the center of the sphere where it is most dense.

could that be enough heat to spark fusion?

I'll come back to this.

2. The simple act of pushing atoms together is enough to cause fusion. Albeit, you need a LOT of pressure to do this, but I think this has actually been done in one of the many particle accelerators out there.. I Can't be certain, correct me if you know better please. Is there enough pressure in the center of a baby star to initiate this fusion from moderately warm hydrogen?



With the first example, I have but one problem... Heat does not stay put, it will escape it's material confines in the form of infrared light if it must, but it will escape just the same. Meaning, the lump of hydrogen will get cold, even if it's NOT expanding.

Does a hydrogen cloud collapse faster than the speed of light? I doubt it... so heat should have plenty of time to escape the cloud before compression reaches critical.. right?

This leaves me looking at gravity as the sole contributor to the existence of fusion. Without it, fusion could not naturally occur, nor could it be sustained for any significant length of time in the off chance that it DID occur as a freak coincidence.


Given that all energy is stored inside the atom as mass, and that fusion throws some of that energy/mass away during the creation of complex atoms. And that even more of that energy/mass is thrown away after the inevitable radioactive decay of all atoms. It seems that all matter in the universe can look forward to being light at some point in it's life.

Yet Gravity even has some influence on this lowest form of matter, light? Granted, if all matter where gone, gravity couldn't be a factor. But I'm not above thinking that matter can always exists, through an endless cycle of Mass->Light->mass(via gravitational singularity).

Imagine it, gravity, the mechanism which may keep the universe alive long after it's death, as a reborn entity. Perhaps this is what we hear, when we point our antennas into space, and listen to the hiss of distant microwaves. Primitive energy coming back home to good 'ol gravity.

Gravity seems to be the only thing in the known universe that can actively concentrate dilute (electromagnetic) energy into one place without an observable loss. I find that astonishing...


If... just IF, things really do work this way, And gravity IS the thing that weaves basic energy into mass... Something could be said about how hydrogen forms naturally from sub-atomic particles. Possibly the key to synthesizing H from the primitive electro soup of life? Idunno..


I'm full of it, I know... Something to think on at least. I just wanted to throw this on the table for discussion.

[AlaskaStar]

with with that great thought, gravity...

the power of DISCHARGE VELOCITY is equal in strength to the CHARGE, as energy, but the VELOCITY (speed) is MUCH GREATER.

layman's way to look at it:

air compressor with 120 gallon tank. tank has a 6 inch port on the side with a massive air-tight BALL VALVE. the ball valve is shut. the compressor is now turned on...it bangs...it clatters...it pumps till it hits the pressure in which it is set to stop. this takes a good deal of time. all that work, now stored up as compressed air. basically the "working storage medium" is the compressed air. so, now the compressor is off and the tank is pressurised and full of air (say at 100 PSI). now somebody comes along and pops open the ball valve and lets all the air out very quickly. the same work force was released when all the air was released, but the energy relesed, even being the same (almost) amount of work stored up by the motor and compressor (minus frictional, and heat losses, and the losses inside the motor itself) the VELOCITY of the relese of the energy was impressive.

now apply to things like engines, electronic circuits, magnets, gasses, pressure vessels, heat, cold, light, absence of light, atmospheric pressure differences, tide pressure differences. get the picture? things charge slowly, and when relesed, the energy is there, but much faster on the release than the charge. catch that, regulate it, and now you might have something.

now here's a thought on the gravity statement.

ZERO POINT ENERGY.

if you have something, whether it be a void of nothingness, or whatever that has ZERO ENERGY POTENTIAL, and it can be sustained, then you would have INCREDIBLE amounts of energy.

the theory is this:

there is always a "slide" from energy to no energy. from pressure to lack of pressure, from light to dark, from heat to lack of heat, from magnetism to lack of magnetism, from electrically charged to lack of charge, from full to empty. when you have STOPPED the energy, you have an immense amount of POWER (energy) at your fingertips.

think about it. now relate to the above statement from the velocity of discharge. more sources of energy come to mind?


AND YOU ARE NOT FULL OF IT! information is valuable. "information is power, the more you have............"

AlaskaStar

[WaterFireHO]

The best description I have run across is ...

Gravity = COMPRESSED MAGNETISM

now that fits with your thery doesn't it .

[AlaskaStar]

Starting to sound like Quantum Physics here....

i have often pondered this stuff...but don't have any way to prove it...YET.

my thought (i know biased of course and biased towards simplicity) is this:

ask "what are atoms made of?" and you get the standard proton, neutron and electrons. ask what those are made of...and those? and those? and those? keep going, so compressed magnetism and gravity being one and the same, means this might be true:

if everything on it's super sub-atomic scale is made of nothing more than pure electrons, then as magnetism and electricity are one and the same, that means that "the big bang" and the "let there be light!" was one in the same. think about it, time, energy, and space are ALL relevant. likewise the "day equals a thousand years...." in 5,000 years, the sun, moon stars and such could have easily formed. 5 days. i'm staying neutral here, so you'll have to bear with me.

"radioactive" hmm....this sound like "electromagnetically active on the radio band" meaning that as atoms decay they are releasing their electrons and thus producing magnetic wave in the same wavelength and frequency that can be detected with a "radio" tuned in to those frequencies. this tool is a "geiger counter." so with radioactive meaning that it is letting off electrons as it decays (or falls apart) then there is a source of magnetic/electric power of discharge, that can be possibly tapped into like Tesla tried and successfully (purportedly) did with that Peirce Arrow car and the radio box tuned in to earth's magnetic field.

i have probably either confused the hell out of you all, or bored you to death. whichever. shoot holes if i'm wrong. like i said it's only a theory. can't prove a theory without trying. until it's proven as FACT, it's just a theory.

AlaskaStar

[Cryptonic26]

AlaskaStar:

I see where you're going there. An oscillation of energy, no matter how it works mechanically, has the potential to be 'captured' at it's apex.

Just as a pendulum swings, it will apex on the right, or on the left. If this natural oscillation can be 'stopped' at its highest potential on ANY swing, then it could be released in a controlled and efficient manner. Of course this rings a death knell for the pendulum's motion if maximum efficiency is gained in its downswing; The potential will have been moved elsewhere, and it will stop moving at the bottom of it's curve, Zero Potential will have been achieved.

I suppose you could say that this is part of a larger energy oscillation that could be captured at the apex of its new form? Interesting concept.


Heat has an unusual oscillation pattern though. It seems to stop moving as soon as it reaches equilibrium. Observable oscillation doesn't seem to take place, at least not within our lifetime. But I guess for all practical purposes this can be ignored, since heat energy is but a small slice of the total energy pie.


WaterFireHO:

I have not been able to identify a connection between gravity and magnetism, other than their similar properties. This is not to say that it isn't there.. I just haven't had the insight to see it myself. Maybe we can make some progress through discussion here?

It does make for some interesting thought experiments.
This, however, isn't my theory. These observations have lead me to a unique perspective of the universe, which I'll outline below just for the sake of sharing. Perhaps it will trigger some interest, and discussion...


---

Everything that I can observe follows a fundamental pattern... When something has a greater value than something else, it will give up part of it's value until both things are of equal value. It really doesn't matter how you define the values, this seems to hold true with nearly all value systems. Things start to get interesting when there are many ways for the first 'thing' to share its value with the second 'thing'. like the branches of a river.. Every branch in the river takes a different path, experiences different forces, and has unique properties, But you can see that every branch ends at the same pool of equilibrium, no matter what path it takes.


Imagine if you will... The universe in it's most basic form.. Raw, Pure energy at rest, in equilibrium. It would have absolutely no material properties, there would be no hot or cold, there would be nothing distinguishable about any part of it.

Now, imagine how you might get things started if you were a third party observer with those powers... You'd grab all that energy, move it to one side, and separate it from the non-energy. Here we create the ultimate energy potential.

At this point, you have two hemispheres, one full of pure positive energy, the other full of pure negative energy. What keeps them separated?
I propose that our reality is the membrane that separates the two potentials. And that what we call 'matter' is the proverbial salt bridge between these potentials.

Particles, the multidimensional pinholes that allow a steady, controlled flow of energy from high potential to low potential.. The Quanta of this flow represents the current potential difference between the devide.


Wait, wait, before you shrug this off, read my next point. if you're still not convinced, by all means ignore me and this thread.


Consider for a moment what this implys. A real 'drain' that exists in ALL THREE DIMENSIONS OF SPACE.
If you watch from the side of the membrane containing a positive potential, you see that all this 'energy stuff' is flowing towards these drains from all directions, a vacuum is created between these drains. and they pull at each other, THE RULE OF INVERSE SQUARE IS MAINTAINED. Gravity is born!

Now.. if you stand on the OTHER side of this membrane, the side containing the negative potential, you see all this 'energy stuff' shooting out from these points in all directions. A PUSH is experienced between these drains (matter). But to a much lesser degree than the pull. ELECTROSTATIC REPULSION?!

The very thing that pulls matter together, is the SAME THING THAT KEEPS IT FROM COLLAPSING ON ITSELF!


This explains so many oddities.

Black Holes- They occur when the 'pull' overpowers the 'push' and these energy drains intersect, they fuse like bubbles on the surface of soapy water, and you have a piece of matter with twice the mass as before, the cascade pulls more and more drains together, until all drains are unified. and the 'pull' is greatly concentrated into a single point. SuperGravity...

I have added one thing to this theory since Its conception a few years ago.. Light.

Consider light as being 3d waves in this 'energy stuff', that is, it works just like sound in the fluids of raw energy.

Things start falling into place.


How else can gravity manipulate light? It's changing the very medium that it travels in! Its path is bent, and twisted with the medium. Just like sound bends and twists as it moves through gasses of varying density.

Waves and particles. Waves as it travels, particle as it interacts with other matter. so efficient.



If you put these two ideas together, you start to see how the black hole functions. How it seems to pull light into it's field, and how it never lets go. The light we se go in, comes out on the other side of the universe, as a super diffuse glow that can only be seen up close, from that side. Is this the fabled WHITE HOLE that eienstien's formula predicted? For that matter.. does this mean that ANTIMATTER is really REGULAR MATTER as viewed from the opposite side of this membrane? We could never have seen it, since we can only see the light waves that move through the positive side of the membrane. It was right under our nose the whole time! hell, it IS our nose!!


Gravity, SuperGravity, Electromagnetics, Matter, AntiMatter, Black holes, White holes.... They all are unified under this simple assumption.

But where does magnetism fall into this theory? I cant see it... Maybe you can?

[Cryptonic26]

[quote="AlaskaStar"]
i have probably either confused the hell out of you all, or bored you to death. whichever. shoot holes if i'm wrong. like i said it's only a theory. can't prove a theory without trying. until it's proven as FACT, it's just a theory.
[/quote]

No no, not at all. I feared that I would bore YOU. But it seems that we have similar interests. This should make for interesting conversation. I hope you dont mind that I'm a bit long winded.... If it's a problem, I'll try to make my points quicker.

I do think that there is a fundamental 'thing' and that everything else is derived from that 'thing'. It takes a lot of digging to see it, but it's there, if only in trace.

My stipulation is that the closer we get to understanding these issues, the closer we get to harnessing the very mechanism that drives the physical world. Free energy in it's truest sense might result from this intimate understanding of ourselves. Hydrogen, I believe is the closest thing we have to the transition between raw energy, and it's physical manifestation.

As for the big bang, and let there be light, some ideas:

The opening verses of Genesis holds some valuable clues I think. This origin story exists in many other religions, in various wordings, but the concept is basically the same.

First, it's important to understand that if this story was created through devine inspiration, some libertys would have been taken to make things comfortable to all who read it. It wouldn't tell us the exact physics involved, because its not important and it would just run many people away.. that would be counterproductive to the original intention of the writing.

I do think there are many truths here, but the absolute truths are represented through a 'simplistic' form of language. Its how you might explain organic chemistry to a child.

Their aren't any real lies, but the simplified language can mask the true meaning if you don't take the initiative to investigate further. And why not? If you choose to accept the simple explanations and stop there, no harm done. But if you look further, the evidences are all around you, the straight no-frills un-simplified answers are out there, manifested in the WORK of God, not nessisarily the WORD, if we chose to look at the simple explanations as pointers in the correct direction, then sense can be had from our childlike confusion.

Gen 1:1 - 1:5 Explicitly mentions the creation of two 'spaces' and the creation of two types of energy. light and dark.

Gen 1:6 - 1:8 states first, that a firmament was created right smack in the middle of what I interpret as a equal mix of both 'light' and 'dark' energy (the

acknowledgement of positive and negative properties of energy). It is stated that this firmament DIVIDES this pool, into two parts. The part that is ABOVE, and the part that is BELOW the fermament.

I'm not sure I understand why there are two entities called heaven on this page.. I give it up to lack of a better word. But it's important to realize that this firmament was called heaven here, because this naming is important in the following verse.

Gen 1:9 finally... The gathering of this 'water' from below heaven (the firmament). It isn't stated WHERE these waters were gathered together, but all things considered, I don't think it would contradict anything to move these 'waters' to the other side of the firmament, to establish positive energy flow.

The moving of these waters is VERY important in the sequence of events. It seems to suggest that everything was jump started on the third phase of creation. That's when the energy potential was finally split, and physics started working.

Without this energy flow through our physical world (what Genesis calls simply 'the earth') matter could not interact with other matter.. and we would have nothing but a pool of static elementary particles. When elementary particles start coming together under the control of gravity; complex mater appears, hydrogen, stars, planets, bacteria, plants, fish, animals. all derivatives of this building block. And they all appear in that order, as observed by the effects of gravity.

Thus, Dry land appears from nothing, and life is born, on the third phase of creation.

Days, weeks, months, All human concepts. What is a 'day' when you're not locked into the pattern of planetary motion? I say its a simple word, for the simple people of that time period.

The people of that time period had NO concept of existing outside the bounds of physical reality, how COULD they relate if any other word was used?

We see, that it wasn't until the fourth phase, where a day was defined by scripture for man.



Everything up to the beginning of the fourth phase, can be interpreted as a painter going through the labor of fabricating his own canvas. Creating for himself the means to express his will.

Everything past the third phase can be seen as the painter adding paint to the canvas he just made. The foundation was already done... now it's time to do something with it... To make it beautiful, elegant, to give it meaning.

That's my take on the subject. I'm interested in hearing others.

[AlaskaStar]

ok simplistic as it may be....
look further:

Earth...physical matter. us living in the physical flesh.

heaven...NOT physical matter...us living as energy.

Earth=matter....heaven=ANIT-MATTER

our side=black hole...their side=white hole

i read in there about "i knew you before you were born..." or something like that...that might explain the transition from ANTI-matter to matter and back to anti-matter. the equalibrium if you will... and things start to make sense. now capture and harness the energy flow BOTH WAYS. then you would have some real energy to deal with. and i don't think that modern man has the technology or the capability YET TODAY to deal with energy of that magnitude. or in that scale/ level...such forth.

AlaskaStar

[AlaskaStar]

so now look at the "signature" at the bottom of everything posted here:

"do we exist, or are we just and existance?"

AlaskaStar

[AbbaRue]

I just spotted this post, and thought I would add a little more food for thought.
A man from SOUTHAMPTON, HAMPSHIRE, ENGLAND named Harold Aspden has written a new concept of physics. I thought you may find his new concepts of interest. He points out numerous errors in the present model of physics and then goes on to correct those errors with his model of physics. A few new inventions have been developed from his concepts as well. His theories predicted what substances would super conduct, before they were discovered to do so.
This fellow has written an entire library of books on the subject, and many of them are free for downloading.
Anyway here is the link to his physics library.
http://www.aspden.org/

Hope you find this as interesting as I have.
Till later Harold

[Cryptonic26]

My bad. Didint think to check for a general discussion forum.



I started reading some of his work the other night, very interesting stuff so far. Thanks for pointing him out!