Magnetic Hydrogen Electrolyzer

[AlaskaStar]

Winding toroids is a major pain in the ass.

It's like using a single thread to stitch a nice jacket from scratch BY HAND.

The ever tangling mess that follows you from beginning to end....is something I don't have the patience for. After wrapping 6 toroid coils around N48 Neodymium ring magnets, I decided I wasn't cut out to make toroid coils. I'll gladly pay someone else to do it for me.

On that idea of yours...At which point would you use to gather the hydrogen gas?

Gravity plays a huge part on this, as a ring shape is not conducive to gathering hydrogen, but the aspect of causing the material inside to rotate around without a pump is wonderful.

I am now thinking that I can still use a straight tube....but wrap the wire around something stiff and thin, but flexible, and after wrapping the wire around that...wrap that backing material around the tube. This would provide an elongated Toroid magnetic field.....but would this do anything in the middle, as the flux direction would be perpendicular to the shape of the canister?

Hmm....

Good Idea...

Worth a try anyway. Cheap to build.

AlaskaStar

[Jehu]

Well, I was thinking of getting a length of flexible PVC tubing, winding the coil on it while it's straight, bending it round into a toroid, then join the 2 ends using a "T" piece to collect the H and refill the ring.

[FarrahDay]

[sparkgap]

[kevinsatterfield]

[morehp]

[AlaskaStar]

[quote]You have to use pulsed DC. In doing so the set up is very similar to a high voltage ignition coil.
The primary winding of the coil is the copper wire AlaskaStar has wrapped around the PVC tube and the secondary winding is the NaOH solution. I assume since the NaOH solution is an electrolyte (ie it can carry or pass electrical current) it is similar to the secondary copper winding in an ignition coil.


So when the DC current is suddenly turned off (during one of the “DC pulse cyclesâ€

[resident_genius]

now, im not any type of resident genius- the name is ironic because of my rather elementary understanding of certain areas of discussion, however i had always felt there was something not being understood by one party or the other, and when AS had described this unit, i had kinda thought "oh, so he's pulsing DC and the magnetic field collapses and hits the water with HV"

it just seemed obvious- without trying to insult anyones intelligence. maybe farrah day's advanced knowledge of the subject contradicted that statement, and thats why there was arguement.

[Jehu]

Funny that you should mention that about not being understood.

Last night I was reading through Farrahs last post and I really couldn't see what the heck she was on about. Then I decided to have another look at how the water molecule is bonded together. I always thought that the covalent bonds were made from only one electron, not two. Everything I read when I first got into alt energy research said that the O would share an electron with each of the H atoms. I have since found out that while they do share an electron, the H atom will also share it's electron with the O atom to make the bond.

I never knew this untill about 2am last night and this is probably what Farrah and I have been banging heads over.

Farrah, I do apologise for any frustration and sleepless nights our discussion may have caused you. Being half english myself, I know how we love to stand our ground and you do that very well. [/compliment]


Now just to refresh everyones memory on what we think is happening....


The NaOH is like the secondary coil in a transformer.
The NaOH is also acting like electrodes in an electrotytic cell.

Farrah, if you can work out what is happening from here using your expertise, it would be greatly appreciated. Could you also lay it out in both proper scientific language and also seperatly in a way that Joe Blow can understand?

[FarrahDay]

Look guys, things have probably got a bit heated around here due to general and quite clear differences in education, scientific background and indeed experience in this subject.

There have been things posted that are quite plausible and worth giving consideration; there have been things posted that are sheer conjecture (no proof of theory, but no problem either at this stage); but there has also been things posted that in scientific terms are blatantly wrong and utter nonsense.

I'm really not against theorising and conjecture - I willingly admit that the process is not at all clear and is yet to be fully understood. My argument was never about this. All I was doing was trying to point out the most blatant flaws that have been posted, with regards to what we do know - science fact.

Sparky, opinions and interpretations are fine as long as they are opinions and interpretations on things that we do not know or are yet to fully understand. But some opinions, arguments and interpretations posted, fly in the face of known science fact. Hence, they are simply not valid in any real sense. I guess clearly there are education issues here that may never be overcome.

Folk have to understand, that though this may be a new and yet to be fully understood process, you can't simply change the laws of physics to fit conjecture. And indeed the laws of physics aren't going to conveniently change for us.

The fact that some of you are struggling to get to grips with how a simple electical circuit works, is a rather big hindrance to theoretical advancement, and doesn't bode well for any theoretical debate or conjecture put forward, as is evident. However, my biggest bug-bear is the creation of electrons (matter).

You might have to be educated to at least a certain level to appreciate just how absurd is the notion of a magnetic field actually creating electrons, but trust me (not that you will) it is an enormous no-no!

You're talking about the creation of matter from energy!

Alaska mentioned that energy can neither be created or destroyed, it just changes form. This is correct. It is also true that matter can be transformed into energy and vice versa, but this is under exceptional circumstances and unimaginable energy levels - hence my reference to the Big Bang - formation of the universe.

And yet some of you are assuming that the small magnetic field in an electrolyser, Alaskas unit and Kansius's test tube is creating electrons!!

Electrons have mass - You are not turning electromagnetic energy into mass in an electrolyser or a test tube. And I really don't mean to sound condescending, but there is not one of you that seems to understand this. Which again, from the theory side of things means we will always be at odds.

I was keen to take part in the discussion on this forum, but this is quite difficult when no one seems to understand what I'm talking about.

However, today I'm going to start to get together a few parts and hopefully over the weekend I might have something to experiment with.

[FarrahDay]

[Jehu]

[saisunee]

[Jehu]

[sparkgap]

Kevin:
The waveform that I used was a sine wave (AC off the mains). Go back a couple of pages and I detail it all.

Morehp:
Thanks for putting me back on the pulsed DC path. I had originally thought this is where we need to be and AS had hinted at it with reference to fly back spikes, negative resistance, and other things. I guess what thru me was when he said he was using current off the alternator, which he described as "tri-phasic AC." But, I now realize that he also said he was using only one leg off the alternator, which I guess would produce a DC spike that has a frequency coupled to the RPM of the alternator.

Now, I could be upset like saisunee about taking a dead end path, but as I said in another post, I take responsibility for my mistakes and I chalk it up to education.

more later...