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OUPower.com • View topic - Special new power supply for brute force electrolysis

Special new power supply for brute force electrolysis

This forum is for discussing anything related to electrolysis and electrolyzer designs.

Special new power supply for brute force electrolysis

Postby resident_genius » Sat Aug 16, 2008 10:21 pm

i was doing research into power supplies, power converters, etc, and finally came across the right power supply. 2 volt, 20, 25, 30, and 40 amphere power supplies available. the thing that makes these special is the fact that they are 12VDC input.

i dropped the company an email since they were business to business only, i got a phone call from the philadelphia area supplier, who wanted to know who i was, what i was doing, what i needed, and after basic electrolysis theory, i delved into basic HHO interaction as a supplementation and how it affects the engine. i told him what i needed and what i was working with, why the cells got hot etc etc.

he sounded very interested, had me email him all the necessary specifications on what i wanted/needed, and said he'd have some units hand selected for my application and ship them out.


here are some specs on the 25A rated model:
-88.9% effecient (95% effecient @ 5VDC)
-no need for a heat sink
-10-14DCV input
-remote on/off
-2" x 1.25" x .3" so tiny profile
-fixed frequency @ 500kHZ
-@ 2VDC, it will only draw 5.6A from the battery/alternator

this seems to be the solution for brute force electrolysers!
the best pic i could get is here:

Image
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Postby Pinhead » Sat Aug 16, 2008 10:38 pm

I was going to try to build a power supply that is very similar, but if these are cheap enough, they could definitely make a lot of single-cell electrolyzers much more efficient. How much are they?
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Postby dalanw » Sun Aug 17, 2008 6:51 am

hi,i was looking for something similar and on impulse bought a 5v input 2v 30 amp output power supply off ebay but trying to drop down the voltage supply to it without losing the available amps was getting complicated so i've shelved it for now. might re-look for a 12v supplied one again after reading your post.
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Postby resident_genius » Sun Aug 17, 2008 10:00 am

yes, its rather hard to convert all those volts into ampheres, this one does it rather effeciently, lets face it, PWM's generate a LOT of heat, and are probably not near 90-95% effecient. as much as i'm not in this to make a profit, i am going to market these if i can, its a really good oppurtunity to help the field of brute force 'lysers, since the biggest drawback is being a "steamin behemoth", ya kno? even pwms still allow heating, this would raise BF effeciency thru the roof, and now as long as you mix the electrolyte really strong, and have approapriate surface area, you can easily run 30, 40, or more ampheres through the unit.

imagine, a 15A load on you alternator turns into a 2v, 40A current thru the 'lyser. this is huge bnreakthrough in my opinion, look at what a smacks is now possibly of doing!
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Postby resident_genius » Sun Aug 17, 2008 10:01 am

where is the line between tinkerer and scientist, scientist and madman, madman and genius?

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Postby Hydrogenworld » Sun Aug 17, 2008 11:56 pm

I am working on a cell desing i believe is going to be realy good.

I am going to describe it for you as good as i can. The principle is an outer and inner core that consist´s of 2 anods and 2 katods. The basic for this is 316L wire and copper wire, yes, copper wire. We know: PANK (positiv anod & negativ katod) and since tha oxygen collects at the anod it should be safe too use copper for the katod (in teory)
Now imagen a spiralcell design where the inner and outer core "interacts" - mounted in such a way that the anod in the inner core has contact whit the katod in the outer core (3 points of contact), and since i use wire i have alot of surface area - 100/1 more than whit plates.
Now, i am using this in a "battery construction" wich concists of 6 inner and outer cors - every cell is one par. So i now have a total of 12 cells in my battery (6 pars). And the power supply should look like this:

1,24-2V - 20-30A per cell, so in other words, 2V-30A x 12 = 24V-30A or 720Watts.

Now the great thing whit ur card is the internal buildup, an increase of power supply, this is good.

The question is this; How many cell´s can one card drive? (remember 12 cells for my "battery") and how can a get my hands on this solution and at what price?
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Postby resident_genius » Mon Aug 18, 2008 2:04 am

the power supply's in question are rated to up to 6vDC, so you'd be able to use three cells per card. if you want to do twelve cells sort of wired like a semi-series design, then i'd look into a 24 volt deep cycle battery and charger. if its going into a car, then possibly two 12 volt batteries in series wired with a three battery solid state type battery isolator and solar panel to assist in charge. thatd be one hell of a setup.

other than that, just the solution touching the copper wire will cause a bigtime corrosion of the wire, copper is soft like the zinc of a motoboat's sacrificial anode, it will be eaten away slowly in this manner. yes, only oxygen will be formed on that side, however please understand that copper doesnt "rust", but it rusts- it oxidizes. i would love to see more of your design, even if just a shoddy paint sketch.
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Postby Hydrogenworld » Mon Aug 18, 2008 3:44 am

I know that copper oxidise under normal konditions, but, there exist higher grade copper that should whitstand acid and sour surroundings (under or above 7ph).
Now, lets imagen that when the electrolyt is in quiet mode, the solution stresses the copper and not when the electrisety is on - the reasen for this is that only hydrogen collects at the katod. So, we need to find somthing that can protect the copper when in quiet mode. Working on that one!

The hole reasen for copper is it´s low recistance. This idéa was born some months ago and this is somthing i am going to try later on in the concept cell.
Aluminum is alsow a material whit low resistance, but aluminium is a bad choice. It would only last a short perriod.
Now, one way of solving problems whit acid & sour iniverments is coiting (surface treatment). I have seen a lot if idéas on this, and so far the best i know of is gold or platina. A thin layer is sufficient, we are talking microns, so it shouldn cost to much to do this.
So, now, lets imagen that we use 316L steel for the anod, marine graded - and that we use treated copper, solely by doing this we ar lowering the electric recistance several times and offcorse, then we get an increase in production.
This is what we want. Ofcourse your idéa whit a 24V supply is a good idéa for my solution, even a larger generator is on it´s way and a limiter.
There are two ways of limeting the current/amps.

1: Sodiumbicarbonat/KOH solution in the electrolyte.
2: Limitation of the amps.
... or 3: Both 1 & 2.
Control is important, and i whant to control both parts (1 & 2).
Controling the flow in to the engine is another part of the system, so i am not going to talk aboute that now.
This is only aboute the efficiency of the cell. No image at this point and the reasen for this is that i am starting a company whitin a short future and the second part is my partners. I am not alowed to talk about everything at this point even if i am the founder.
But i can show you somthing that are similare to my design. I think you are going to like this 8)

http://tw.youtube.com/watch?v=11Qn4CGlZp4

Sometimes one can get surpriced that others are doing almoust the same thing as oneself. But it is a smal world after all. hehe!
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Postby resident_genius » Fri Aug 22, 2008 4:02 pm

just got a call back from my supplier- he's shipping them out monday, so i should have them tuesday or latest wednesday if the driver is too lazy to ring my doorbell again.

so this power supply is tuneable from 1v to 6 v, thatd make it perfect for a series of three 'lysers in series or a three-cell series stack. (2v per cell)

quite obviously, most people simply running a single brute force 'lyser who dont want the heating and PWM issues, nor the current draw off of the alternator.

it only draws around 6 ampheres! perfect. less than your stereo.

[/b]
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Low Voltage Electrolysis

Postby SeaMonkey » Fri Aug 22, 2008 7:06 pm

Kudos to those who are pursuing the DC to DC Converter means of power conversion. If you construct your electrolyzers well you will not be disappointed in their performance!
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Postby resident_genius » Sat Aug 30, 2008 2:07 pm

*in his best poltergeist voice*

"They're hereeeee!"

Image

and a better view.....

Image

...and so testing begins! this model is rated at 25 ampheres, yes draws 6 amps from the car battery. perfect! no more such thing as "is the alternator working harder messing with my results?" for one, two, and three cell series and semi-series applications.

this is the answer to brute force electrolysis.....no more heating!

it'll run 1.666 volts to each electrolyer in a three cell series wired setup setup @ 25 amps and draw 13 amps from alternator.

it'll run a two cell wired in series at either 1.6V per cell or 2.5V per cell, all at 25 amps and draw 9 amps @ 1.6V per cell or 13 amps @ 2.5 V per cell.

it'll run a single cell @ 2V and draw only 5.6 ampheres.



...rest in peace, "steaming behemoths"
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