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OUPower.com • View topic - Splitting Gas

Splitting Gas

This forum is for discussing anything related to electrolysis and electrolyzer designs.

Postby Hybrid » Tue Aug 12, 2008 9:05 am

--Anthony
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Postby FlashBang » Wed Aug 20, 2008 3:11 am

Ok... I have confirmed that someone has a "semi-permiable" membrane that can be used to seperate the Hydrogen. See the "September 2008" Issue of Popular Mechanics magazine. Bottom of the page, left side there is a blurb about a product that Honda makes called "Hone Home Hydrogen Fueling Station".

http://www.popularmechanics.com/automot ... 77630.html

Text provided here for your convenience..

Hydrogen
A mix of natural gas, air and water is catalyzed in the Honda Home Hydrogen Fueling Station reformer, creating a gas that is 40 to 50 percent hydrogen. A membrane filters out pure hydrogen gas, which is then compressed for fuel. There’s no storage tank, so your car slow-fills from the pump at night; it takes about 6 hours to reach max capacity—171 liters at 5000 psi. The catch: Hydrogen from gas isn’t emissions-free, and Honda says consumers still have a several-year wait.
Production: 50 standard liters per minute
Price: Not yet available
Compatibility: Hydrogen cars

So the point being, there has to be a patent for this Hydrogen sifting membrane... guess its time to hit the patent search

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Postby Hybrid » Thu Aug 21, 2008 9:05 am

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Postby FlashBang » Mon Aug 25, 2008 9:32 am

Hybrid:

I agree, any pump that is straigh battery connected is a potential FIREBALL in an accident. So that is not what I had in mind. At this point, I am still researching, becuase I have to make sure that the heating process is enough to vaporize the fuel completely without reaching the "Autoignition" temperature. Perhaps a good alternative to that line of thinking is use only a couple of windings around the exhaust then up to a Vapor chamber like AlaskaStar's Ammo Can.... in an excited (heated) state, the gasoline blends would tend to vaporize more evenly. (I think SeaMonkey indicated that the current gasoline is a various blend based on geography and season ((TEMP))). So by raising the temps to say 300+ degrees all of the components should vaproize nicely in the turbulent vapor chamber.

Also... since I have not as yet identified the H2 Filter yet, I have been thinking about a design for the "lyser" that would allow you to manually seperate the H and O... in essence, it is a standard lyzer design with plates, BUTwith a divider and a special feature on each plate. I will have to hand draw it and scan it I guess to show a picture of the idea since I can not figure how to do it in a software package.

I will try to describe it here in text. Imagine a standard LOW VOLTAGE CELL (12-15 inches long with plates that are 2 inches wide and 12 inches long. Now in many designs, you can stack the plates together and drill your holes through all plates at once. Then simpley take the middle hole where you would use your nylon bolt and swing them around every other one so that you can use your bus bolt on top and one on the bottom. This is essentially the design that Chris has posted in the "Electrolyser Basics" section of the site. Then you see his design evolved into both bus bolts at the bottom of the plate array... and you can see how he did that. Put all plates together, drill two holes for nylon alignment bolts, and then notch out the corner and flip other other plate over, so that you have a staggered bus path on the bottom right and bottom left. Again, this is in the Electrolyser Basics section.... NOW in all of these cases, you have nice uniform plates with spacing of 1/16th of an inch and in some cases 1-2mm.... IF you increase the space between plates, you make the Lyzer run hotter. But if you have the space, and I would say from the initial design that you posted here, space is not the issue and neither is temp... Then lets make a single array, with spacing about 5/16ths of an inch between the plates, using the basic plate design from the second evolution of plate design that Chris posted as described above. BUT after cutting all plates the same and before you flip every other one over, take either the upper right or left corner and fold it over so that on the high side either left of right, you lose about 1/8th of an inch off of the original 12 inch height... and on the low side, you lose about 1 inch from the original height. DO NOT CREASE the metal, you want it bent such that it makes a semi circle (life a wave at the beach). Then cut the excess off... making a channel for the rising bubbles to follow up and off the plate. The size of this channel is important, and should not exceed open space of more than 1/8th or 3/16ths inches in outside diameter, or you will kill your spacing and make steam rather than Hydroxy....

Once you have made your channel on all plates, still facing the same way, flip every other one over as Chris did. Now, what you have is an array that has bus connections at the bottom left and right... with Nylon alignment bolt holes spaced out in the center, and alternating channels flowing left and right... so that the array can not be placed up against a divider at the center where the alternating channels make a V. Some of the plates would have to be doubled up so plate thickness should be considered (i.e. both sides of the plate produce gas, so plates with alternating channels have to be back to back).

If your interested, I will draw something up and scan and post.

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Postby resident_genius » Mon Aug 25, 2008 8:59 pm

*scratches head*

hows about that picture?
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Postby FlashBang » Tue Aug 26, 2008 1:15 am

Will try to put some kind of picture together tomorrow. Was gone all day, and have to work tomorrow.

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Postby mrgalleria » Tue Aug 26, 2008 1:58 am

Aloha,
I posted photos and description in my project folder for a bubbler with the potential capability to separate hydrogen and oxygen.
http://oupower.com/index.php?dir=_Other ... %20bubbler
As the glue is still drying, testing has not yet started. The membrane used was the result of someone's recommendation posted here a long time ago, I forgot who it was.
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Postby Hybrid » Tue Aug 26, 2008 3:10 am

Good one Bill ! Can you ignite each side later & let us know how much
difference there is ? I'm interested in your results for sure.
Cheers !
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Postby resident_genius » Tue Aug 26, 2008 7:33 am

mr g you sure do love that goop stuff!

i gotta admit, its a really good adhesive. i was using the goop for pvc (purple tube) for one of my various cell designs.
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Postby FlashBang » Wed Aug 27, 2008 2:43 am

Mr.G

I think if your experiments prove sucessful, then the magnets are a far simpler method than trying to use plate design to manually seperate the gases. I think too, it allows you to use the most efficient electrolyzer available that will fit your working environment instead of forcing large or bulky tubes and riggings into the equation.

Thanks for the pics.

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