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OUPower.com • View topic - Meyer fuel cell

Meyer fuel cell

This forum is for discussing anything related to electrolysis and electrolyzer designs.

Meyer fuel cell

Postby Packman » Fri May 02, 2008 9:43 am

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Postby piccolo » Fri May 02, 2008 2:54 pm

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Postby Packman » Fri May 02, 2008 3:40 pm

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Postby kaosad » Fri May 02, 2008 9:52 pm

Hi Packman,

Probably you could try high voltage and show us :) Engineer for atom smasher must be good at HV stuffs.

One thing you didn't get it right. Meyer's idea is to prohibit discharge between plates so as to minimise the power consumption. And yes using HV like plasma you get more hydrogen production at very short time [can be up to 80 times the conventional electrolysis (with the same input power) at around 300V.] But this technique uses lots of current. It also tends to heat up or boils the water which is undesirable for some application like automobile.
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Postby kaosad » Fri May 02, 2008 11:12 pm

sorry, same input energy
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Postby Jehu » Sat May 03, 2008 3:50 am

Hi Packman.

Well it's great to have an electrical engineer on board.

One thing I did notice in the Meyer Patents is that the top curves of the step charges he is giving to the cell look like a capacitor charge/ discharge graph. Since we know that the cell is a water based cap it doesn't make that much difference anyway. But I'll dig out some of my electrical textbooks and whack up the graphs so the rest of you will know what I mean.

There are also a bunch of formulas that I haven't seen anyone here use and I think perhaps you should be using them. Time constants, capacitor charge/discharge rates, and the like.
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Meyer's Conceptual Explanations

Postby SeaMonkey » Sat May 03, 2008 6:18 pm

When Meyer, and his Legal Expert, created the Patent documentation, their objective was to provide a conceptual explanation of the processes taking place within his Hydroxy Cell without revealing critical details. Even the waveforms presented are conceptual and not representative of waveforms that would actually be observed with an oscilloscope.

The circuit diagrams were made purposely difficult to interpret and lacking many essential elements.

Meyer was attempting to protect the secret details of his Hydroxy Cell.

Others who have researched it have concluded that high voltage is necessary, as are pulses at a specific frequency range; but not exactly in the manner revealed in the Patent documentation.

The cylindrical "electrodes" in the Meyer cell are not used for electrolytic decomposition of the water, but rather, are insulated to prevent direct current flow through the water. Their function is to provide a high voltage gradient across the water between the plates to establish "stress" upon the molecular dipoles. Then the pulses which are superimposed upon the high voltage "tickle" the molecular bonds into disassociation which produces gaseous hydrogen and oxygen.

The gases are not produced at the surfaces of the "electrodes" as is the case in electrolysis, but in the midst of the water between the electrodes.

The concentric electrodes are not functioning so much as a capacitor; but are operating as a transducer to apply the high voltage stimulation to the water molecules between the electrode surfaces.

That was Meyer's secret.
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Postby kaosad » Sat May 03, 2008 10:09 pm

The conductive electrodes (separated at a distance), whether insulated or not, when dipped into the water will form electrolytic capacitor and there is no doubt about it.

I think his secret is the feedback circuit which he did not mention how it should be done.
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Postby Packman » Sun May 04, 2008 9:24 am

Hi

ok. so I have a 120/5000V transformer step u Xfmr.
I have a 12V PWM- for running off a car battery.

I was thinking of putting the PWM output into the step up Xfmr,
creating 500V pulse train & feeding it into my HoH gen. The hoh gen is
has 16' or 316 wire wound inside

Anything you recomend or not?

What kind of results have you gotten? Any vids or anything to see?

SeaMonkey- you have been studying hoh a long time I see.
Can you tell me more about where people are goin wron following Meyers work?

thank

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Postby kaosad » Sun May 04, 2008 9:32 am

Check up circuit diagrams in Meyer's patents. You should know what the circuit does. We would like to know your opinion about it.
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Stan Meyer and his Water Fuel Device

Postby SeaMonkey » Mon May 05, 2008 1:59 am

Stan was exceedingly protective of his "invention" and the details of how it worked. He absolutely refused to show anyone the circuitry that he used which was in a "black box" when he performed his demonstrations. Think about this for a moment. The concept was so simple and straightforward that he couldn't allow anyone to see the simplicity of his black box. Once a knowledgeable person was able to see what it really was, then replication of the concept would be possible by many others.

His documentation, and strange explanations, were designed to shroud the simpicity of the concept in a lot of deceptive "gobbledy gook" in order to make it seem far more difficult than it truly is.

Most who've tried to follow his documents have gone astray by placing too much faith in the accuracy of his circuit diagrams and explanations. Just take them for what they really are, an obfuscation, and cling to the simple principles of the concept.

Well Insulated concentric tubes with a very thin layer of highly efficient high voltage insulating material.

A static high voltage applied to the tubes to develop the high voltage gradient across the water between the tubes.

A critical pulse frequency superimposed upon the static high voltage which will serve to stimulate the atoms in the water molecules to break their bonds and separate into gases.

The pulses must be very, very narrow; time durations measured in nanoseconds. The pulse frequency and amplitude must be "tuned" to effect the desired production of gases between the plates of the cell. The frequency of the pulses will be in the 20 KHz range, the 40 KHz range or in the 120 KHz range. Or you may use the Bob Boyce method of applying three harmonically related pulse frequencies simultaneously.

Bob Boyce has made some interesting breakthroughs in pulse generation with his Pulse Width Modulator circuits and his toroidal transformer. There are numerous ways to produce the static high voltage (Kilovolts) with high frequency components such as are used in the Solid State Tesla Coil drivers.

The cell, when properly constructed will resemble a capacitor in its makeup. There will be no direct current path between the plates through the water, but the pulses superimposed upon the high voltage will result in an AC/RF currrent because of the reactance of the cell. It is this current flow, which should be relatively small, that will stimulate the water molecules.

If you already have electronics training and experience it will not be too much of a challenge to experiment with the concept. If you are lacking training and experience in electronics then you'll need some help. Check to see if there's a Ham Radio Operator anywhere close. They're always very happy to help others with electronic projects.

And by all means start small. To test the concept construct a small cell with flat, parallel plates as Stan did. No need to go full bore into the full sized unit until you've mastered the techniques of tuning it up. The tuning must be done very slowly and will require a great deal of patience. This is not the kind of project that beginners will have any success with.

As always, anytime you're working with high voltage, exercise extreme care. The high voltage supply doesn't need to produce very much power. Make certain that the high voltage it produces is low current so as to be non-lethal. Never take unnecessary risks.
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Postby kaosad » Mon May 05, 2008 8:58 am

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Postby piccolo » Tue May 06, 2008 7:43 am

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Stanley A. Meyer non-electrolytic hydrogen/oxygen cell

Postby SeaMonkey » Thu May 08, 2008 9:39 pm

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Postby kaosad » Fri May 09, 2008 11:08 pm

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