Stupid Questions about Chris' new electrolyzer design

[Timbo12989]

Alright in Chris' new electrolyzer design on the hydrogen fuel update thing it lists as advantages as being fully submerged with no current leakage or anything. How does this "submerged plate array" work as opposed to the other electrolysers where the water level had to remain below the top of the cells. I looked at all the pictures carefully and read everything but I must be stupid because I can't figure out why one can be submerged and the other can't. If anyone could clarify this it would be much appreciated.

[skibum13]

In a series cell electrolyzer, current flows from the end plate, through the water cell to the next plate, then through the next water cell, and so on until it reaches the other side, which is a grounded plate. if the water level was above the plates or there was leakage around the plates, then the current would bypass the plate(s), traveling through the water and reduce the number of actual cells in the electrolyzer.

So if I had an electrolyzer with 8 plates with water in between them, then I would have 7 cells in my series electrolyzer. if the water level was raised above the top of the plates, then the electricity would take the path of least resistance and go straight from one end plate to the other, resulting in just one cell.

with Chris' design, he forces the plates to be either positive or negative by welding all the positive plates together and all the negative plates together. so there is no way for the water to "short" it out.

it's the alternating of positive and negative plates that results in the breakdown of the water molecule. in the series cell design, the end plates are the only plates with either a positive or negative charge applied. In Chris' design, all the plates have either a positive or negative charge applied.

the benefit of the series cell design is it is much more compact. you can have 7 cells (the optimum number) in a very small space. The disadvantage is you can't have any leakage and you have to make sure to maintain the highest water level possible without shorting a cell out (overfilling the cell). it's not the best design for a car (unless you have a way to stabalize the unit). It's also more difficult to build correctly. Chris' design was done with ease of buildability (is that a word?) and toughness in mind...it was designed to be used in a car. the disadvantage (don't take it personally Chris ) is that each container is only one cell and you would need 7 containers to have 7 cells...not as compact.

7 cells is the optimum number for a 12 volt system. 12 volts divided 7 cells is 1.7 volts per cell, which is very close to Faraday's theoretical limit of 1.2 (the minimum amount of volts required for electrolysis to occur). thus it is very efficient.

[Chris]

[Timbo12989]

[Chris]

[Timbo12989]

Alright thanks, I got it now, now I just have to go find some stainless steel, do you know if you can find it at like a home depot or lowes or if you have to go to a metal shop? Also, is a lot of electronics experience required to begin playing with the frequencies, or would I be able to just sit down and learn as I go once I get the electrolyzer up and running. I don't have much experience at all in electronics but I am taking a digital electronics course in school in about a month.

[Bob Boyce]

You can find low grades of stainless in the kitchen or household supplies, and pet departments, of many large discount chains like Wal-Mart or K-Mart. Pet food and water bowls, kitchen implements, and some food processing containers, bowls, ect.

I have not seen stainless steel offered as such in the metals section of Home Depot or Lowes, but that doesn't mean that they do not have it in other departments. They both do carry a somewhat limited supply of stainless steel hardware.

I obtain my 304 and 316 grades of stainless steel sheet from a metals supplier, but they are quite expensive (especially 316), and costs to have the metal sheered to size is high.

The method of generating the frequencies can be as simple as the output of a 555 timer pulse generator fed into a car audio amp, or as complex as you desire. This is experimentation after all, trying new and different things with what we have available to us.

Bob

[thaelin]

Here is an idea. Power source at 2v hi amps and then parallel the tubes. In the top portion use baffels to control slosh problems. Only work with submerged plate designs tho. One could use say 4" tubes that way and have spiral wound plates for high surface so maybe 4 would suffice.

I currently run an EFI mini van but will be fixing up a 6cy econoline and want to have it run a booster that way at 2.65 a gallon I can still afford to go to work.

Been reading a lot lately and think I am close to ready to make the unit. I am just a lot jittery about hydrogen and how much of a bang it makes. Over all I want to make the system as safe as possible even at the expense of a bit of gas production. No computer, so many less hassels.

Thanks to all who post here for the great help along the way.

Thaelin

[kevinsatterfield]

you can buy ss switch plates a lowes i know either single or double (light switch plates)also at lowes in the stove department they sell a sheet like 32" x 32" that are used as a back plate for stoves.

[Timbo12989]

[BEMET]