The New and Improved Electrolizer

[rodney]

[Ristola]

New to the site / forum.
I reviewed all 70 some pages and seen no comments on the pictures dated back in august of 2004.

Has the project been put on hold, or possibility relocated to a new page?

Very curious, if the new electrolizer has been built / tested etc..

"Hangin on a thread"

[duke401]

i just looked at the pic. on the old forum page 70 i think, i see now what that paper was for. somebody mess up.
duke

[duke401]

i just looked at the pic. on the old forum page 70 i think, i see now what that paper was for. somebody mess up.
duke

[Chris]

Yeah that box underwent some SERIOUS work on my end. I spent hours upon hours fixing and filling and improving that thing.

I will get back into my experiments when I have some time but for now other priorities are taking my time.

I won't survive much longer without getting back into some experiments, so don't worry

On a side note, we have not moved yet. But I'm hoping this spring is the ticket. We've submitted our house plans and the builder is working on a price for us to do everything. We'll take it from there.

The thing I'm worried about most, is money for my shop. I will need to spend most everything I can afford, on just getting the land and finishing the house. -The shop may be a few years away which totally sucks.

I'll be working in the basement or something improvised during the time I have no shop. --All for the bigger dream I suppose. The "end game" should be worth the wait!

[rodney]

Chris-

I built the same box from your plans if I can figure out how to get my pics on here i will post it. I just got my camera today . Anyways I am useing a modifyed power inverter (wal-mart brand 750 watt) Output capasitor removed -Square wave dc. My preliminary data from what I can see- Unless you have some special frequency to "tickle" the gases out of the plates ,It seems to me that past 70 plates the gas production starts to drop off till you hit about 80 plates then the voltage is streched out so far that you are below 2 volts per cell .(In my opinion, doesn't seem to use the power to it's fullest capasity). Yes i just like to build things to see how they will work. (':lol:') The box I built holds 151 plates altho I only tryed to run 120, and ended up runing on 80 and then efficently on 65 for the sweet spot for my setup. Understaning how this al works just a little bit better I consider this the room to grow setup.

I have a full chart of the voltage drop per cell , and the total volts,amps and other interesting facts - Like my inverter matching the cells to try to provide 2 volts per cell from 120v-159v- probably a basic principle of electronics I don't know about. I think next i will run to 65 plates in parallel then maybe three if my inverter don't puke out. Thanks for all your help.(':D')
-Rodney

[Chris]

[rodney]

[rodney]

OK heres the deal I posted my picks here. GO SEE ALL MY STUFF !!!!!
double click on the picture to see all 19 photos



Someone please let me know if the link worked and if I did it right this was my first time posting pics on the web! YEehaaa

[Chris]

Yes your link worked You had 19 pics posted but only about 1/2 were original. The rest were repeats for some reason?

Your boxes look very nice. You have obviously put a LOT of work into them ...I'm impressed! Not many people have the fortitude to do this kind of "dirty" work. -I on the other hand love it and would have it no other way. I'd never be able to just sit by and read. I have to build the stuff for myself.

Now let's attack your problems. If you're sure it's not electrolyte or spacing, then it can only be 1 other thing ...your power input. I have not messed with the inverters much at all. Most everything I do at 120v is straight from the wall, through a hefty Full Wave Bridge Rectifier.

I will say this, unless your inverter is HUGE, you're only going to be able to push maybe 5 amps through it at maximum. The thing will probably want to push just 2 or 3 to stay happy. That in itself could seriously reduce or rather restrict your output.

Did you try ...just for the hell of it, hooking a heavy full wave bridge rectifier into your setup? Please put a fuse or breaker (10 - 15amps) in line BEFORE the rectifier on the HOT side of your AC.

If you want to eliminate your inverter as a variable. Just use 10 - 14 plates together in a series and use a 12v car battery as the power supply. That should show you exactly what it will do at 120v with 10x more plates in your current configuration.

I always try to urge people to start small, with the 12v versions.

So can you get some more pics of your unit in action?

Ohhhhhhh I almost forgot. The pics are hard to make out but it looks like you have 2 supports under the ends of your long electrolyzer box. Dude you are going to crack that thing in a hurry. You need RUNNERS along the entire length of the bottom to support the weight evenly.

If you dont' have that, kiss that box goodbye after 2 weeks of use. The heat and weight will rip it apart. By runners I mean stable support along the whole length of the bottom. -Like runners on a child's sled.

[rodney]

Chris-

I was up pretty late posting all that I did have 2 or 3 repeats. I have ways had the goal of running my electrolysers off the car so- what you don't see is the extra heavy duty jumpers runing out to my diesel truck on the other side of the door, (i have always used a 14v source because thats what i will end up with anyways) . I do have a electronics guys that i see on wednesdays who can help me rig up whatever you say that i need to. After hearing you say that about the inverter, I realised what the electronics guy had said to me last week- the inverter is trying to match the load and when the load is out of the range of the inverter it shuts off ( above 80 plates ). I am somewhat inexperanced with electronics but it seems to make since to me somewhat now.

So if the inverter will move around to much voltage and current wise, what should i use to drive it? I will try the FWBR. for test experiment, but eventually I will need to get back to the 14v source. I may get to do some testing today but if not will be monday. I'll get the operational photos. You guys are a wealth of information and experiance! Its great!'


Thanks Rodney

[Chris]

I'm not sure why you went with the BIG electrolyzer design. That is only for 120v (house current) or above. It's crazy to do that in a vehicle since you'll have losses at the inverter.

If you're doing it because you were replicating Bob Boyce's design, then that's OK. -You had a goal in mind, and you built to achieve it.

He's going to have to help you more on the inverter end of things. He used inverters to power his electrolyzers. I think he had 60 plates in his designes, which would be 59 cells.

Bob -Any advice here?

[rodney]

Yea that's kind of the direction that I was going. I have built 2- 61 plate elctrolysers (Now combind to make the big one in the pics) . I really just wanted to see this thing work for myself. I did not know anything about inverters or Inverter loss.

As far as my goals are still the same, I have a 83 toyota truck ($100) that i can do whatever with watercar,hybrid, test dummy whatever. I have a 2004 tahoe that i have managed to shave 5 mpg off with a canister style hydroxy generator. would like to see how far the oxysensor will let me go with the gas. As for my diesel truck i want to start with that big stainless 51 plate unit on it . Still have to work out the bugs with"keeping it cool".

All and all I am glad I built the big unit. If not for the fact that i can use it to learn where the sweet spot is for my inverter and plate setup seems to like about 65 plates at it's peak production before the currnet started to back off.

I think realistically if i can increase the mpg by 50-100% on my vehicals and not sacrifice usability I will be happy. I don't have to have a full blown watercar.


-Rodney

[rodney]

Bob-
That's funny, I was just talking with the electronics guy about the efficiency of more cells vs less cells , so that answers my question. More cells is more gas! Even if more electrolite is used!

Did you remeber me talking about introducing hydroxy on my big diesel truck? Well I got a picture of the truck for you to see , (finally got a camera).

Do you think that there is a difference between DC that is steped up to 155v (about 1/2 way down the circut board where it has not been changed to ac ) and the DC that comes out of the FWBR after the inverter. I don't know alot about electronics, ( I'm learning) I just found 155v DC on the back of the circut board with a volt meter and got my power from that point. I will try to do it this week with the FWBR at the output of the inverter to see if i get better results. It almost seems like the current is limited to 75 plates with the lack of bubbles I saw.

I also am having a hard time convincing this guy about the Importance of tuning the circut. He says that he thinks square wave DC is enough. I told him I need 2 potentiometers hooked into the chip to control the freq. ( and gave him diagrams of both chips, and transistors on the board and he still doesn't seem to "get " the Idea of how to "wire it up") It looked to me like the diagrams (chip schematics) would tell him how to do it.

I have read all the old posts and printed out the " resonance " posts for this guy too. I really appreciate all the help i get here most people don't even know what a electrolyser is. -thanks rodney

[reym]

Hi Rodney,

Can you post or give an instruction on how did you attach an electrolizer to your engine w/c gave 5mpg off your gasoline?

Please include parameters such as volts /amps/no of plates (serial or parallel design / any additional alternator / alternator max amps
/type of electrolite /electrolite concentration/temperature of solution.
Thanks,
Rey