kevinsatterfield

gas-mechanic · Posted: Mon Sep 25, 2006 10:08 am Post subject:

Hi waterbard,

Bob Boyce · Posted: Mon Sep 25, 2006 10:51 am Post subject:

Bob, you are absolutely correct. Even the flashback suppressors made for hydrogen are not capable of stopping the flashback of hydroxy. The flame speed is just too fast. They have been tested and failed.

Bob
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gas-mechanic · Posted: Mon Sep 25, 2006 11:01 am Post subject: okay, so...

...wearing my gold star from Bob

Thanks Bob!

...so can someone explain to me why TWO bubblers is better than one, or even necessary?

How does the hydroxy remain a separate gas after it has passed through the water in a bubbler? Doesn't it 'reclaim' any of the hydrogen or oxygen from the water?

Thanks.
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The two most common elements in the universe are hydrogen and stupidity.

Bob Boyce · Posted: Mon Sep 25, 2006 1:34 pm Post subject:

The first bubbler is the scrubber bubbler. It has fine holes to break up the gas into fine bubbles, so electrolyte vapors can be scrubbed from the gas. I like to add a pressure guage on the scrubber bubbler, and it does not have to be as strong. A check valve is used to prevent backflow into the cell stack.

The second bubbler is the safety bubbler. It has a very strong container to withstand the pressure pulse of a flashback. A check valve is used to protect the scrubber bubbler from the pressure pulse. A pop-off pressure relief can be a good addition. No pressure guage, because it would be destroyed by the pressure pulse of a flashback.

The bubbler functions can be combined into a single bubbler, but cleansing of the gas is not as good as 2 seperate functional bubblers, and no pressure guage.

Using distilled or filtered rain water in the bubblers allows the water to become replacement water for the cell stack. This assures that recaptured electrolyte from the vapor is re-applied to the cell stack and not lost. I use safety bubbler water for the scrubber bubbler, then scrubber bubbler water in the cell stack.

Any charge lost to the bubbler water from the gas would be minimal, and would only serve to energize the water more that will be used as replacement water in the cell stack.

Bob
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gas-mechanic · Posted: Mon Sep 25, 2006 6:02 pm Post subject:

Thank you, Bob.
It never ceases to amaze me how much you know about every aspect of this stuff we are working on!

I have some further questions and comments about bubblers, but due to supper being about ready, and me never missing a meal on purpose (call me anything but 'late for lunch'!!), I will do some discussion-group history reading on the subject, then start a new topic afterwards.

Have a great evening!
_________________
- 'Electro-mechanic' and I are no-longer working on our project!
--
Bob (c)¿(c)¬
bobd441 at adelphia dot net
--
The two most common elements in the universe are hydrogen and stupidity.

AlaskaStar · Posted: Tue Sep 26, 2006 12:36 am Post subject:

I have found that using a spring loaded check valve, and a ZERO PRESSURE system works fine. the flashback arrestor is from an oxy-acetylene torch, and the valve is spring loaded, so this means that NO PRESSURE=NO FLOW, and BACK-PRESSURE=NO FLOW. I use the engine vacuum to suck the valve open to get the hydrogen fuel. I use two, with a short hose between them that is severely weak. this hose is NOT clamped on. this allows for a "break away device" of sorts to be between the 2 flashback arrestors. the hydrogen gas is NOT under pressure, in fact it is allowed to equalize and expand in an expansion chamber to equal that of atmospheric pressure. this means that even in the even of a flash-back, AND the break-away hose blowing off, that the 2nd check valve is what will now close, and not completely stop the hydrogen gas from exiting, but at least slow it down considerably. I use a ball valve on the hydrogen supply side of the safety valves to regulate flow, and keep the engine throttles CLOSED to keep the vacuum going to allow flow, and by regulating the flow, i can effectively control engine rpm.

this is just my setup, i am not saying that any of your ideas are wrong, but up here, it gets cold, and even the garage is allowed to get down to 20 degree in winter, which is 12 degrees below the freezing mark, and it may be -60 outside, but it's better to be at -20 than -60....point is, a bubbler WILL freeze, and this said, I had to find a mechanical method of doing the same.

I do like the idea of a bubbler, because a liquid will not compress, and acts as a strong wall of movable CONCRETE for the flashback to pound against in the event of a flashback.

This is only my take, and I am glad to see Bob Boyce back up and going again.

Thanks.
AlaskaStar
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kevinsatterfield · Posted: Tue Sep 26, 2006 5:06 pm Post subject:

Wat im xpieriencing with a single cell with a plastic top is that when the flashback does get into the cell it goes down into the cell water and pushes out on the electrodes rather than blowing streight up and off with the top...its blowing the electrodes off from the sides...I was expecting the top to come off but it hasnt yet.Guess it wuld be easier( and safer ) to just take it off manualy ehh....heh heh .With the Herman cell i have noticed the gas being produced with just 12 volts DC isnt near as potent as a set of serries cells spaced at 1/8".The space'n on the serries cells offer more than just effecientcy....they offer a higher form of hydrogen for some reason.Im not gonn agive up on the Herman cell after all but am going back to a serries cell design for the moment .Hope it does the brain some good for a little variaty.I have some ideas now to try a few diffrent things with wat i have lay'n around again but i think ill wait to post on project pages till its been testeda time or two.I have two ideas that wont be hard to try out ...offf to the shed...... Cool

mos68x · Posted: Wed Sep 27, 2006 7:15 pm Post subject:

How goes it kevin? You manage to get yours together yet? I can't come down this weekend, but if you want to come up just give me a buzz. I'm still trying to figure out how to get my TIG to do some spot welds for me so that I can get these plates together. Of course, I still have to drill the plates out(I'm dreading that).

kevinsatterfield · Posted: Wed Sep 27, 2006 9:14 pm Post subject:

Hey Leon....ive put in an order for inserts to build a serries stack and have a few weeks till they arrive so i'll be working on a water purification tank till then.Today i found some 6" caps and plugs for a 6" tank along with a 1 and 1/2 foot piece of 6" pipe...heh heh ....Ill be doing more research on ozenated water for a while ...at least a few weeks.Ill take a break now and then and clean up my Herman cell and get it and those 14 cells together.I wanted them to work together somehow but the slotted inserts will most deffinately make life a lot easier for a change......lol.Also will be doing some research on the magnetics involved with those serries cells as that will probably just do it for me...I love magnetics....The serries cells are really kewl...each plate is bi-polar..thats prety neat itself.It would seem like a hard question to answer.."How do i make one side of a plate postive and the other side negative".....lol pretty neat stuff.Its like the one " how do i make the anode the north pole and the cathode a south pole electromagneticaly"..... at least i know the answer to first one....LOL

mos68x · Posted: Wed Sep 27, 2006 10:55 pm Post subject:

Well I hope you find what you are looking for then in that direction, if you need anything TIG'd just let me know, I'll help you out for sure. I'm having welding withdrawls, lol, so I'm looking for anything to do now.
What happened to the whole "I'm going to stay on one project till i finish it"? If anything you can make the plates to go in it I guess, I just wish I had the money that you had right now, lol.

kevinsatterfield · Posted: Thu Oct 26, 2006 5:01 pm Post subject:

I have a treat for ya'll (if it works) with a clear,see thru chamber for a Herman type test chamber thats cheap and easy to replicate.Im keeping my fingers crossed but so far the concept is going together good enough. Very Happy

MarkinAustralia · Posted: Thu Oct 26, 2006 10:28 pm Post subject:

Dear Bob (Gas mechanic)
i am curious which direction you are heading now and what proof you saw convinced you.
I might add you might want to read some of Roy McAlister who will show you that hydrogen does explode not improde. He has been working on hydrogen engines for years.
I am also a member of the NEC and we might have some info regarding your new direction.
All the best.
mark
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MarkinAustralia · Posted: Thu Oct 26, 2006 10:34 pm Post subject:

Hi Kevin,
You read what I read on yahoo re the supergen putting out 800 litres per minute. I dont wish to be offensive ...what a load of BS.
i was wondering if you might contact him and see if we can come along and measure these outputs.
I also dont believe the video of him just running an engine on hydroxy.
I am not being negative..just a realist.
i was wondering if you tested the gas output of your maxigen yet...is it near 800 litres a minute??
Mark
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Follow your passion

kevinsatterfield · Posted: Fri Oct 27, 2006 9:22 am Post subject:

his measurements were taken under full vaccum so i really cant comment one way or another about it....i can comment about my maxigen and tell you that i havent got 1 dollar in save'ns from it yet....i dont know if i gotta run it on an empty tank er wat.....but i have mine installed just like the dodge is from his video's.....im work'n a couple of herman type cells and wanna do a simple comparison with the em...im almost ready to bet the 8" hermanizer will out put more than my maxigen.