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Hydrogenworld
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 Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2008 12:47 am Post subject: David Wenbert on Water Fuel Cells and Overunity Similarities |
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From Peswiki...
Additional links are added at the bottom of this post.
This is an interesting intervue, that i hope can reveal some additionel information and trowhing some new light on the fuelcell tech. I´m going to investigate some of the information here, in an attempt to understand whats going on, but i belive that this is a huge step forward, @ least for me it is. So for does how have not read/seen this it might be a real disclosure. Indeapth investigation is needed. So feel free to jump in to debate!
| Quote: | INTRODUCTION
On August 27, 2007, as part of the PES Network Free Energy Now radio series, Sterling D. Allan conducted a 1-hour interview with David Wenbert with H2Earth Institute regarding his work with Water Fuel Cells, and his theory that the "over unity" being observed in various electrolysis set-ups is closely related to the reason for "over unity" being observed in some electromagnetic set-ups.
The following transcription and video were prepared by Matt Imber.
VIDEO
The YouTube videos are compiled online at:
http://peswiki.com/index.php/Video:David_Wenbert_on_Water_Fuel_Cells_and_Electromagnetic_Overunity_Similarities
TRANSCRIPTION
Opening Narrators: Free Energy Now! Imagine a world in which each home has its own power generator that obtains its energy in such a way that no fuel has to be added. Imagine every vehicle being able to run without ever stopping for fuel. Imagine each appliance having its own power source that never has to be recharged. That is the world of the future. Join with us now, as we tract our progress toward such a world.
Sterling Allan: Welcome to Free Energy Now. I’m your host, Sterling Allen. You can join us online to see our call-in numbers at freeenergynow.net, to see our past shows and catch the archives of those as well as see who our future guest line-up is. Our guest today is David Wenbert. He is the Founder and Executive Director of the H2Earth Institute, and has been involved with advanced research for more than 20 years in energy research. H2 Earth Institute is in the process of replicating the water fuel cell technology of the late Stanley Meyer, who ran vehicles on water, and whose patents have just now become public domain. Mr. Wenbert is now in the Washington D.C. area and is developing the H2Earth Institute and the companion Trade Association for the emerging water fuel industry. In particular, he has a theory or concept that these over-unity electric systems have a tight correlation to the over-unity electrolysis systems that are being observed, that he’s been involved in founding. Welcome to the show, David – glad to have you on.
David Wenbert: Thank you, it’s nice to be here.
Sterling Allan: Now, we’ve chatted a lot, via Skype. This is the first time you and I have spoken over a live line. It’s an interesting phenomenon when we’ve known each other for quite a while.
David Wenbert: (Laughing) Yes, it’s a strange new world.
Sterling Allan: Yeah, it is. Well, I’ve been looking forward to this interview. It’s been a very fascinating subject. You know we’re just about done with a little video snippet we’ve pulled together here at PES Network about water fuel cells – and kind of the gist of that is that there are a lot of independent researchers & hobbyists around the planet -- hundreds if not thousands of people have replicated what appear to be over-unity electrolysis scenarios, where they’re getting more energy out than what traditional electrolysis equations would say is possible, and apparently, there may be some tapping into zero-point energy or some other energy source in the process – and you’re saying that this over unity observed in electrolysis – and you’ve been heavily involved in an open source project tool, to publish plans of how to do these things as Stanly Meyer’s plans and others, and facilitating this massive proliferation of the replication of this effect. But you’re saying that this is quite similar to what’s going on with the over-unity electromagnetic systems.
David Wenbert: Yes, the Hearth Institute has formed a group over 60 research associates in 16 countries around the world. These researchers have all been replicating the Stan Meyer Water Fuel Cell – the patents on which expired June 26th (2007). We’ve had a number of successes; our members have been producing gas at down at 1 ½ watt hours per liter and down below that -- 0.38 watt hours per liter. Anything below 2.4 watts hours per liter is over-unity.
Sterling Allan: According to Faraday’s equations, right?
David Wenbert: Yes, and the water fuel cell is a lot more complex than it seems. There are many processes going on within it at the same time. Many people have been confused by the way Stan Meyer referred to the use of resonance as the mechanism that splits the water. It’s not a molecular resonance in the way most physicists or chemists would refer to it. It’s more of an electrical resonance between the resonance charging choke coils on either side of the water fuel cell in the circuit. And we’ve found that the way those coils interact is virtually identical to the way the coils in Tom Bearden’s motionless electromagnetic generator interact. And we’ve traced this further, and it appears pretty conclusive that the electrodynamics that are happening within the water fuel cell in Stan Meyer’s circuit, are the same that are observed in not only Bearden’s, but Joseph Newman’s energy machine, John Bedini’s motors – it’s all the same. And the sooner we realize that and begin to extrapolate from that point, the sooner that practical free energy technology is going to be available.
Sterling Allan: Now, of course, none of what you just said is going to be acknowledged or even looked at by academia for yet some time, which is very unfortunate, but here we have… How many people would you say have replicated the over-unity electrolysis situation? Just a guess…
David Wenbert: Well, beyond the 60 or so that we’re working with full time (we have a real-time collaboration system using the Skype platform), but there are hundreds around the world, or thousands. With the advent of YouTube, I think more people have been able to see this stuff and get into it and start working with it on a hobby basis – not just the water fuel cell, but the Joseph Newman machine, the Bedini motor, and all of these. And all the sudden on YouTube, you’re seeing an explosion of hundreds and hundreds of videos of people who are trying these things. Now, they don’t all get it right, and there are a lot of subtleties in the design and operation that has to be learned and observed to make it work, but I think we’re on an exponential acceleration curve in the development of these things where it’s inevitable that these devices are going to be perfected and reliable and widely available in a very short order.
Sterling Allan: For the sake of those who are sitting at their computers listening to this right now, or through the archives, let’s give out your website domain name.
David Wenbert: It’s actually pronounced Hearth, the Hearth Institute is: www.H2Earth.org
Sterling D. Allan: The Letter H, the number 2 and then Earth, dot org.
David Wenbert: Dot org, yeah, and we’re also setting up a trade association for companies that get involved in what we believe will be an emerging water fuel industry – and that’s at www.H2Earth.com.
Sterling D. Allan: OK…
David Wenbert: …and that’s the Hydroxy Energy Association.
Sterling Allan: Uh-huh, very good. Now You actually… One thing I never mentioned in the introduction is; you have quite a bit of experience in the trade world. You were a former stock broker, mortgage broker, arranged & negotiated & participated in mergers, acquisitions, leverage buy-outs venture capital placement, initial public offerings in alternative energy, aerospace, telecommunications, health care and information technology sectors. You’ve also been a consulting business partner, worked with a variety of research inventors and their exotic technologies – bringing them together with professional scientists and university resources to bridge the gaps which often separate new ideas from funding. So, you’ve got your feet plenty wet in the area of this – bringing things to market, so it sounds like you’re an ideal person to help bring these technologies into a usable area.
David Wenbert: Well, I think that the field is reaching a point at which the technology is about to be mature enough that it can look at going to market as products for the average consumer. I’ve been watching this field for 30 years. And we went from (back in the 70’s) when we had a variety of independent inventors that a lot of people took for kooks & crackpots. And then, over the 80’s and 90’s, it slowly became more professional, and connections between these technologies began to emerge. Dr. Peter Lindemann, I think made a major contribution to this field with his book: Free Energy Secrets of Cold Electricity. It’s really a detective story, where he went back and found the connections between original works by Nicola Tesla - which had nothing to do with Tesla’s more well-known contributions like A.C. current and so forth. But some of Tesla’s lab notes referring to radiant energy and electro-radiant events that were anomalous, and didn’t fit in with any of the rest of electrical theory, but were reproducible. Dr. Lindemann then traced that to the work of E.V. Gray and the Gray Motor, which definitely employed the same mechanism -- and then, traced that further to Stan Meyer and the water fuel cell. And the more we look at Joe Newman and John Bedini, and a hundred other inventors out there – it’s the same circuit, it’s doing the same thing. These are not different devices. And Dr. Lindemann and Tom Bearden, in his book Energy From the Vacuum, I think -- just in the last few years -- are really bringing this together – to coalesce to the point where industry can pick up this technology and begin turning it into profit.
Sterling Allan: At the recent extraordinary technology conference, by Tesla Tech in Salt Lake City in July 26-29 (and this is the year 2007 for people who are years ahead of us, listening back, years behind), anyway -- Peter Lindemann was there with a demonstration of a number of circuits that he’s come with that are actually very similar to the Bedini circuit, but don’t involve the Bedini patent. And he has actually published those, and that’s a story I’ve been sitting on and need to get around to. I’ve been procrastinating a little bit, because it’s hard work to pull together something like that in a comprehensible way. But he has done similar work in showing some very amazing electrical phenomena that go far outside what classical physics describe in text books, and which can make motors so much more efficient, so you’re not fighting back EMFs, you can actually use the back EMF’s, and get more mechanical output from your motor using much less energy. And he has not published a complete set of plans about how to build an over-unity motor, but he says if you piece together what he has out there, you can do it, he’s just not going to tell you how to do it.
David Wenbert: Yes, he believes that the market really isn’t ready for such a product yet. That because the attitude in academia, and so on, that the skepticism is all pervasive, and that you couldn’t just come right out with a free energy product. Personally, I disagree with that. I think that when you look at the dire situation that the world is in today – between runaway global warming, impending peak oil, and wars over oil and petro-terrorism – we’re looking at the 3 horsemen of the apocalypse. And the one thing that can diffuse that or unravel that convergence of Peak Oil, Petro-Terrorism and Global Warming is to render petroleum obsolete. And that’s what got me involved with the water fuel cell. Frankly, we’re looking at other water fuel technologies as well, but the water fuel cell seems to be the winner, and it has the advantage that the patents have expired and the technology is in the public domain.
Sterling Allan: Uh-huh – I should mention that I, together with Dave Wenbert have pulled together a page at Teswiki about this, and I created a short URL, which is www.watercell.info, and that was a page that Dave actually pulled together for us, and has been keeping updated, with links to his website, and other resources, discussion groups, YouTube forums, where you can go and participate in this collaborative effort to increase the number of replications, to increase the accuracy (of) the performance of these systems – to kind of drill down… and your objective, as I understand it right now, is to come up with a demonstration unit that is basically undeniable.
David Wenbert: Exactly -- we call it the IDU, or Irrefutable Demonstration Unit, and it will consist of a 3 kilowatt portable generator – just an off-the-shelf Honda generator, running itself off of a water fuel cell. And the water fuel cell will be plugged into the 10 amp (12 volt, 10 amp) DC auxiliary circuit. So, it won’t even be running off the AC. And we should be at that point in the next few months – it’s just a question of building a final cell that incorporates everything that we’ve learned so far. Our findings to-date are generally posted on that page (at www.watercell.info), and if you look at the bottom of that page, there is a graphic showing the input waveform that the water fuel cell requires (from Stan Meyer), and above that, some oscilloscope tracings of the output waveform of the Joseph Newman energy machine. And you can see at a glance that they are virtually identical.
Sterling Allan: Yeah…
David Wenbert: Anyway, that was the first clue, but since then we’ve found several others. For example, if you go to Tom Bearden’s book: Energy From the Vacuum, on Page 401, there is a diagram of the MEG coil assembly (Figure 7.5 on Page 401). Well, that image is virtually identical to the voltage intensifier circuit in Stan Meyer’s documents.
Sterling Allan: Hmm…
David Wenbert: Now, I don’t think the word water appears anywhere in the 900 page book by Tom Bearden, and I don’t know if he ever talked to Meyer at all. And Stan Meyer didn’t have the benefit of the work that Tom Bearden has done over the last 10 years, in analyzing free energy, but, they still seemed to have arrived at the same conclusion.
Sterling Allan: Yes, that’s fascinating. Do you have somewhere, an itemization of the similarities -- kind of an articulation of this concept, or the similarities between the electrolysis over-unity and the electromagnetic over-unity?
David Wenbert: Not yet – that’s the next step. That’s why I haven’t updated our website in a while because this emerging understanding has been unfolding, and we’ve been trying to figure out what’s the best way to present it. Various things like the Tesla switch are also public domain technology, and we believe that, at some point, a master design can come together that incorporates this into one practical device. The bottom line of the water fuel cell is -- it really is a fuel cell. It’s not a misnomer. You just add water, expose it to the universe, in the form of that radiant energy pulse, and it gives you electricity. And you get combustible gas out of the byproduct.
Sterling Allan: And you have enough energy to keep the system running, plus you have energy left over to use for… In other words, it can serve as a primary energy generator.
David Wenbert: Yes, properly constructed, according to what we know now, the water fuel cell will consume no current. It will produce net current. What’s actually happening there is, you’re achieving dielectric breakdown in the water, over and over again – doing it with voltage. You’re not allowing any current to enter the cell. When the voltage spike grows to a certain magnitude, it forces dielectric breakdown. If no current is entering in from the cathode (which Meyer’s cathodes were insulated, by the way), the electrons are ripped from the water to fill the holes in the anode. And as you pull electrons out of water, water molecules break down. First, you have ionization when they lose one electron, and then you have disassociation when they lose 2 electrons. And that’s what happens in the water fuel cell – over and over again. And all those electrons build up, and they’re drawn off by what Meyer called the electron extraction circuit. And, so you’re getting DC current out of the water fuel cell, and that electron extraction circuit -- in direct proportion to how much gas you produce. Now if you want more gas, you fix it so it pulls out more current, and vise-versa.
Sterling Allan: Now, how does this compare to the Tesla radiant energy circuit?
David Wenbert: Well, I’ll tell you – the simplest depiction of all of this is in a document that was released on July 27th, by Patrick Kelly. Patrick Kelly, as you know, is the editor of The Practical Guide to Free Energy Devices, which is now hosted at www.panaceauniversity.org And his document – Number D3, (and it’s easy to find at www.panaceauniversity.org), that document goes into various similarities between the Bedini motor, the Tesla switch, and a patent by Harold Aspden (the British physicist). On pages 25-36, of that descriery document, you see a walk-through of the Tesla switch, which John Bedini first presented at the Tesla Centennial Symposium in 1984. But, you’ll see diagrams that show just how the Tesla switch circuit works between 4 batteries – keeping the batteries charged, while you draw off a load. The more load you draw off, the faster the batteries charge. It’s completely the opposite of a normal electrical circuit. It depends on the switching. But that is the single, simplest embodiment of this same principal. And what’s going on in that Tesla Switch was just a handful of transistors and capacitors. What’s going on in that Tesla Switch is the same thing we’re seeing in the water fuel cell, it’s what Joe Newman’s motor does, it’s what John Bedini’s motors do, it’s what the MEG does – in the final analysis. Now, Joe Newman uses, what is in effect, a rotary mechanical switch – his commutator. And Newman’s commutator is the secret to the Newman energy machine. The coils and the magnets are amplifiers. That’s not where the magic happens. It’s happening in the switch.
Sterling Allan: Is that the way he sees it?
David Wenbert: No. No, but the evidence is that his system is behaving exactly like Bedini’s, and exactly like these other things. It’s charging the batteries in the same way, with some of the same anomalies, and all the phenomenology suggest that it’s the same thing. Now, it’s also true that that commutator is probably a better way of doing this than transistors and other discreet modern electronic components. There’s certain things about this energy flow that may be difficult for elements like MOSFETs and so on, to accommodate.
Sterling Allan: So, the transistor in the Bedini circuit is the equivalent of the commutator in Newman’s circuit?
David Wenbert: Yes. Yes.
Sterling Allan: Peter Lindemann’s circuit also has a transistor. It’s really quite nifty how he’s redesigned that circuit to accomplish the same thing, but outside of the Bedini patents. So that’s more of an open source type of beast than what Bedini’s is -- where there’s a patent protection.
David Wenbert: Exactly. Part of the thing that’s kept this technology bottled up over the years is the inventor mentality. Just the process of inventing and patenting, and the way you would go about forming a company or raising money -- traditionally in other businesses -- requires that you obtain patent protection. That’s the kind of thing that venture capitalists will want to see. But it’s really not the way to go in free energy, because that prevents devices from being replicated and prevents anyone from really analyzing it in the way that they would feel confident in investing.
Sterling Allan: M-hmm
David Wenbert: And, there’s enough of it now in the public domain. You know, even the foreign patents, which Joe Newman was awarded in various counties under the patent cooperation treaty in 1988 – that patent has expired. So, with all do respect to Joe Newman, his technology is in the public domain – at least what he’s exhibited so far.
Sterling Allan: M-hmm
David Wenbert: And Meyer’s and the Tesla Switch and so on. And from all this, it should be possible for anyone whose got the fabrication and assembly capability to organize a practical device. And that’s something that we’re looking at right now.
Sterling Allan: I’m wondering, when we’re talking about these technologies, you’ve not mentioned GEET, and GEET is not electrolysis scenario, it’s a plasma scenario where they’re taking an engine and they’re running the exhaust in one direction, and the fuel comes in the opposite direction and heats up the fuel as it goes through there. There’s some electrical stripping that goes on apparently. The fuel goes in a special method and is burned very efficiently, very cleanly. What’s his name? Dennis…
David Wenbert: You’re thinking of Dennis Lee.
Sterling Allan: Yes, Dennis Lee has that same technology that he got from patents from (Paul) Pantone. Do you see a similarity in that scenario to the electrolysis?
David Wenbert: Well, I’ll tell you, I spent a good deal of time involved in research on the GEET, in central Florida. We had a half dozen Ph.D.s involved in the project. WE replicated the GEET, and studied its phenomenology, and the GEET is definitely real. It can definitely be made to work. It is also much more complex then it seems. There’s a lot going on in there. Constructing a perfected version that is reliable is not necessarily cheap or easy, but it can be done. In working with the GEET, we found very interesting things. We had (like I said) about a half dozen scientists there at the time. The thing was operating, and with a magnetometer, we measured the magnetic fields around the GEET at various distances, at several feet across the room. And we found various patterns in this anomalous magnetic field -- that shouldn’t have even been there in the first place. And the thing operated. There was a null zone -- a couple feet from the device, in which the magnetic flux suddenly dropped to zero – at a certain radius from the tube – where it existed everywhere else in the room. There are a lot of metal objects and things, but the fact that it created this magnetic null zone, as well as its own field, was just very bizarre. I mean, we had professors of electrical engineering in the room, that just couldn’t see how that should be happening.
Sterling Allan: M-hmm. What about the theory that’s put forth by Moray King, who says that these electrolysis scenarios are somehow tapping into zero-point energy. The gas clusters on an atomic level are creating a self-organizing criticality that somehow gets the zero-point energy moving, and that’s the true source of energy in these scenarios – NOT the water itself.
David Wenbert: Well, yes. Like I said, the water fuel cell is complex. Not only does the circuit behave like a Tesla Switch or the MEG, but in the water itself, when that voltage spike is applied, but no current is allowed though it - what is happening in the water is the same thing that’s happening in the circuit. It’s just happening all over again. And that appears to be where you get this ingression of energy from the vacuum -- in the quantum vacuum.
Sterling Allan: M-hmm.
David Wenbert: Stan Meyer, in one of his lectures, actually described it that way. He said with that pulse, we’re opening a door, and as long as we can keep that door open, the energy will continue to come in. But it’s very hard to do, and you have to keep pulsing it, and keep opening the door over and over again. Well, that’s the same thing as the Gray Tube in E.V. Gray’s Motor, and the same thing the Newman Commutator is doing.
Sterling Allan: M-hmm. Now, in this process of harnessing zero-point energy, or whatever cosmic energy is flowing into this, as these doors are being opened, do you not think that calling this water fuel cell is a misnomer, in as much as the true energy source is actually outside of the system, coming into the system, because of the system?
David Wenbert: Well, yes and no. I mean at the simplest level, water fuel cell seems the best description. It’s also been referred to as a water capacitor, although there are more mundane, closed water capacitors for other purposes. I think that as the understanding of these things comes together, and I’m talking just over the next 3 to 6 months, you’re going to see some very reliable, replicable demonstrations that are going to make it irrefutable that the excess energy is real, and that it’s being used in these devices. And then grudgingly, you’ll see the scientific establishment start taking a more serious look at it.
Sterling Allan: It seems to me that the water fuel cell community is close to a point that the cold fusion community is at. There was a recent conference at MIT this month, I think it was on the 14th. This was published in Wired Magazine, this story that I’m referring to – where they were saying that have been some 3,000+ refereed papers published about cold fusion, documenting that it exists, its replications, its characteristics, and that the question is no longer does it exists, and is it real, the question is can we get the funding that’s called for to commercialize this, because it’s going to be difficult to work through all the issues (that are the bugs), that are going to be required to scale it to a commercial level.
David Wenbert: Well, yes, but if we’re right that the underlying phenomenology of the water fuel cell is the same as these other devices like Bearden, Bedini, Newman, etc., then it puts a different spin on this. It gives a very direct path to the perfected device – to perfecting all of these devices. In the scheme of things, it’s pretty cheap research to do. I mean, you know, a few hundred dollars or a few thousand dollars in parts. You don’t need palladium rods, and heavy water and neutron detectors, and all this. I mean, cold fusion is cheap compared to hot fusion, but the water fuel cell and these radiant energy technologies are probably that much again cheaper.
Sterling Allan: So the water fuel cell is really the ideal open source technology to open to the community, to have a community collaborative development and advancement forward of the technology, without having to go through the traditional routes of government funding, government support, large institutional support, to get Detroit involved – that’s not required. Let me go back to this situation you talked about earlier, where you had half a dozen Ph.D.s studying the GEET. And it came down to, that the technology worked, but it was very complex, and difficult to put into a stable configuration for commercial application.
David Wenbert: Exactly. I would say the GEET is on par with cold fusion, in terms of the effort that would be required to perfect it, and the cost involved in doing individual experiments and so forth. I think it needs to be done, and will be done, and the H2Earth Institute will probably take up the GEET at some point and do some of that work that we didn’t get to five years ago, when we were working on this in Florida. But the most practical device is going to be something along the lines of the water fuel cell, probably with a circuit more like the Tesla Switch than Meyer’s original. You have to remember, Stan Meyer died in 1998, and we’re just coming up on the 10th anniversary of his death. He didn’t have Tom Bearden’s papers to go by.
Sterling Allan: M-Hmm.
David Wenbert: He didn’t have.. well, virtually everything that’s on the internet now, in the field of free energy, didn’t exist 10 years ago. And I think that by finding the keys to the phenomenology that we think we have now, the water fuel cell can be made simpler and more reliable. And ultimately, you won’t need -- for a home power system for example… you know, we were envisioning: you’d have a water fuel cell, and you’d take the gas and you’d run it through a microturbine, and the microturbine would generate electricity, and with the waste heat, you’d heat your water. So you’d have a home power system not unlike a Generac – or one of these things on the market today for backup power that you can buy at Home Depot. A microturbine would be better than a piston engine for reliability reasons, but that’s beside the point. Anyway, that’s where we were, looking at doing with the water fuel cell – was getting it to the point where it can be used for home power, in that regard. But now, as we’ve studied it further – in the relationship to the electrical power that comes out of the cell, in the electronic extraction circuit, it could be a lot simpler than that. It could just be a question of having a battery bank, like you would if you had solar PV panels on your roof – where you have a dozen batteries, or 20 batteries, and an automatic transfer switch, and inverter, a charge controller, and voltage regulator. You know, all this stuff is off-the-shelf in the solar industry. (36:34) You’d have that same system, but there would be a water fuel cell, and the current thrown off by the water fuel cell would keep your batteries charged, and the batteries would go to a 12 volt inverter, and convert it to 120-volt AC, to run your home.
Sterling Allan: What are you doing with the gas?
David Wenbert: In that case, it’s almost like the gas becomes irrelevant, but yeah, you can use it in your HVAC system, you know, in an absorption chiller or something like that. In an automobile, it’s just the opposite. There, you would use the gas in the internal combustion engine, and the fact that it’s generating a lot of electrical power, well, you’ll make use of that in some way, perhaps a hybrid vehicle is ideal for use with this.
Sterling Allan: So, you said it a number of times that apparently bears repeating – I had not appreciated - that the water fuel cell is not only generating gas, the hydrogen/oxygen coming off of the broken bonds from the water, but you’re saying it’s also generating current.
David Wenbert: Yes, as a matter of fact, one of the things that became apparent in our research is that you can not neglect that electronic extraction circuit -- you NEED to pull that current out of there, because every electron that’s left in the water is inhibiting ionization and disassociation from occurring. That’s why the pulses are timed in such a way that they keep the current from entering the cell. And the cathode that the electrons would normally come out of, is insulated in Delron. Stan buried that in his documentation. It was hard to figure out he was doing that, but yeah, the sort of bounce-back and the resonant effect is the primary factor in keeping the current from entering, and the Delron insulation prevents any leakage beyond that. But meanwhile, as the result of ionization and disassociation, you have this free electron current that arises in the solution. And the way the circuit works is, when the high voltage pulse is off on the anode, the Electronic Extraction Circuit kicks in; because the electrons can’t all move through the water fast enough to get to the anode during the pulse. So the EEC draws off this free electron current, and you can power a light with it; we’ve had people use it to run motors & fans and pumps and so on. But it’s very important, because otherwise those electrons will build up and change the nature of what’s happening chemically, and inhibit the process.
Sterling Allan: The question comes in when you talk about a home power system and you compare it to a microturbine distributed energy type of microturbine, or a solar system using a battery bank. Price-wise, what are we talking about? Are we going to be competing with those prices of solar, or are we going to be competing with conventional energy? Are we going to be lower?
David Wenbert: I think that if a home power system based on free energy, whether it’s the Tesla Switch, or whether it’s a version of that involving the water fuel cell – either way, you’re going to be able to do with a little green box for $2,000 what you would otherwise need $20,000 worth of solar panels to do. Now, the balance of the system is all pretty much going to be the same, and we’re fortunate our friends in the solar industry developed this to a high art – and there are a thousand installers around the country, who put these things in every day. You know, the battery bank, and its associated electronics is now something you can buy out of a catalog from a dozen vendors. That wasn’t the case way back in the 20th century.
Sterling Allan: What is done in terms of the input of water? Of course, water is a precious commodity, and becoming more so. How pure does the water need to be, and at what rate does it burn? I mean, you buy water from the grocery store, at almost the same price at what you buy gasoline.
David Wenbert: True… Now remember, since the water is not actually being consumed here, there’s no reason why the water fuel cell needs to be open loop as far as the gas goes. Now, you get your hydroxy gas out. You burn it, in whatever type of engine, and then, you’re getting water vapor out the exhaust. Well, there’s no reason why you can’t condense that and reuse it. You know, your energy isn’t coming from the water, as you pointed out – it’s coming from the quantum vacuum. Now, the U.S. Army already has a device which captures water vapor from motor vehicle exhaust while the vehicle is running – without seriously impairing its performance. (DARP?) has developed that. It’s in use in Iraq right now, undergoing testing. And, ultimately they expect that a lot of the Humvees, and other military vehicles will be outfitted with it. So, fortunately, that part’s already been done.
Sterling Allan: In our video that we’re putting out here in a couple of days, there’s a snip showing Xogen technology (spelled Xogen.com is their website). Or, actually, I think it’s dot… (David & Sterling together: it’s dot CA I believe). Yeah, they lost their dot com. Anyway, they are claiming to use the technology not to produce gas, but to purify water.
David Wenbert: Well, yes, and you can do that with high voltage in water. It doesn’t mean that they have real water fuel technology though, unfortunately. You know, there are a number of companies doing that sort of thing, and we refer to it as exothermic plasma synthesis. They all have different trade names for it. You’ve got companies like StarTech.net, and U.S. Magnagas.com. There are a dozen others, and they use a high voltage discharge under water to produce combustible gas. And what they’re doing is – carbon based. Most of them are using carbon, or graphite electrodes, and the electrodes ablate and you get COH2 out -- carbon monoxide and hydrogen in a loose bind, and it is fairly clean and very efficient. But the graphite electrodes are expensive. That is a field that we’re interested in, but that’s not really the same thing as the water fuel cell per say.
Sterling Allan: Ok, so the idea that water fuel cells could be used clean the water, while also providing energy is a bit misplaced?
David Wenbert: Well, no. I mean, one of the things we’ve uncovered is that you can use any water in this thing. I mean, first, when we realized that Peter Lindemann was correct, and that the dielectric break-down in the water was the key, our people started all using distilled water, and triple distilled water, and isotopically pure water, and so on. But, that only matters if you’re passing current through it. And we realized that, no – there is no current being introduced into the water fuel cell, because the cathode is insulated. Then we realized that Stan Meyer really was correct when he said you can use sea water. It doesn’t matter, you just adjust the parameters. But when the water is… whatever it’s resistively is, or how conductive it is – it doesn’t matter. You can still achieve dielectric breakdown if you drive it with enough voltage fast enough.
Sterling Allan: Now, how does this compare to the Brown’s Gas devices, such as George Wiseman’s producing?
David Wenbert: Well, Stan Meyer and Yule Brown were contemporaries. They were rivals. They were going around the same time in the ‘70’s and ‘80’s promoting their technologies. There’s conflicting evidence about whether the gas coming out of the water fuel cell is really Brown’s Gas or whether it has the same unique properties as Brown’s gas. That’s going to take some spectroscopy to really get a handle on that, and we plan to do that in the future. Brown’s Gas machines typically operate at about 3 watt-hours per liter. With the water fuel cell, we’re seeing at least twice as efficient, and ultimately, many times more efficient in producing the gas, although studying Brown’s Gas has told us a lot about what is going on in the water fuel cell. Brown’s gas is ionized. And the Brown’s Gas flame is impinging on something – it’s transferring a charge. That’s what accounts for all the bizarre properties of Brown’s Gas. A normal flame, whether it’s a torch or a candle, or whatever – it’s a plasma. All fire is plasma, but it’s neutral. The total number of positive charges and negative charges are roughly equal in an ordinary flame. Not so in the Brown’s gas. And that tells us that when you create this gas in an electrically asymmetrically fashion, you draw off the electrons. You start seeing unusually effects occur, and indeed that’s the case.
Sterling Allan: Are you observing the similar effects to what Brown’s Gas is observing? You, know, you can take a torch and you can wave across your hand and it doesn’t burn your hand, but you can then take that same torch, on the same setting, put it to tungsten and it will sublimate it almost immediately.
David Wenbert: Right, that’s due to the fact that the flame is highly charged.
Sterling Allan: And you’re seeing that same effect with the gas coming off the water fuel cell?
David Wenbert: Well we haven’t been analyzing its combustion characteristics yet; we’ve been concentrating on gas production efficiency.
Sterling Allan: But surely some people have tried that.
David Wenbert: Actually, we haven’t really been looking at that at all. Working with independent researchers, who are donating their time, and buying the parts, largely out of their own pocket so far – is a little different as far as getting the same sort of goal, focus, objectives than if we had them all in the same building – you know – in real space. There are a lot of experiments that we’d like to see done, but we’re going to need to generate some major funding to undertake them. And that is something that we’re going to look for after we have this irrefutable demonstration unit.
Sterling Allan: Do you have a method where people who are interested in investing can put up money?
David Wenbert: No, no -- we haven’t been accepting any donations thus far, we’ve been wanting to get to that demonstration first, and then, it’s only at that point that I’d feel comfortable in accepting donations in general.
Sterling Allan: I want to ask a couple more questions, we have about 5 minutes left in the show here. One question is the commercial end of it – your foundation, I can’t remember what you called it…the dot com version of it…H2Earth (or hearth). The other is, how does this relate to people who are using hydrogen injection systems into their air intake in the vehicle they have in an onboard electrolysis scenario -- producing brown’s gas, which then goes into the air intake, and increases the fuel efficiency and decreases the emissions.
David Wenbert: Yes, those can be generically referred to as hydroxy-boosters for cars, and I think there are, I think about 50 of them on the market, and have been, and there’s more all the time -- and people do seem to get incredible results with them. The Hydroxy Energy Association that they’re putting together will hopefully serve as a trade association for all kinds of water fuel technology, not just the water fuel cell. And you’ve got out there companies that make Brown’s Gas welders. You’ve got companies that make these hydroxy boosters that are examples of water fuel technology that’s in use today. There’s a company in Korea that actually has a Brown’s Gas system that feeds into a roaster, and you can roast chickens on a commercial scale using Brown’s Gas. They claim that the meat cooks better, and that it’s juicier and so forth. But, yeah, the Hydroxy Energy Association for Renewables and Transports and Homes (or HEARTH) will be based here in Washington DC, and will represent the interests of the new water fuel industry in the same way that the American Petroleum Institute represents oil companies, or the gas association for natural gas and coal industries represent their fields. Indeed, a thousand other industries that have trade associations.
Sterling Allan: Are you going to hold annual conferences?
David Wenbert: Yes.
Sterling Allan: When’s your first?
David Wenbert: Well, (laughing) we’re talking with the Panacea Foundation in Australia about possibly doing a joint function with them at some point. It would be nice to do something in Hawaii, in collaboration with Panacea, and bring together water fuel researchers from the U.S. and Australia - -which is where most of the effort seems to be concentrated worldwide – although, we do have some very active teams in South Africa and other countries around the world.
Sterling Allan: Europe seems to be quite active in this research.
David Wenbert: Less so than you would think. And to that extent, there seems to be more of it in Eastern Europe. We have members from Poland, Slovenia, Croatia, Romania; I think there was one from the Czech Republic… But so far, we don’t have anyone from France or Germany, or the places you would expect.
Sterling Allan: I wanted to come back to this question about the hydroxy booster technology. Right now, let’s say they’re getting 40 percent, is the best number I’ve heard for the improvement in the mileage, just by adding one of these electrolysis units to the engine – where it’s drawing current from the battery, which of course is replenished by the alternator – and that current electrolyzes the water, which then goes into the air intake, for a net gain of 40 percent in the fuel efficiency.
David Wenbert: Right. Now, one of our uh… we have 2 members who are with manufacturers of those devices, and one of them – (Obney Friedman?) from water fuel for gas dot com, if I remember correctly. He’s found something very interesting. They’ve analyzed the engine computers in later model cars, that control the ignition and the oxygen sensors, and so forth, and he believes that there’s evidence that these things have been rigged – have been deliberately programmed to defeat hydroxy boost devices, and many kinds of fuel additives as well.
Sterling Allan: No doubt, you have to do some hoop jumping with some circuitry and what not, to get around that, and George Wiseman has some of that circuitry that you can get to…
David Wenbert: True, true. But think about what he’s saying – Not just that these devices make it difficult, but that they are deliberately programmed to defeat the hydroxy boosters. If that’s the case…
Sterling Allan: That’s going to have to wait for another day. We really appreciate you joining us. This has been a fascinating interview and you’ve been listening to the Free Energy Now Show. I’m your host Sterling Allan. We’ve been talking with Dave Wenbert, who is the Founder and Managing Director of the HEARTH Institute. It has both an open source water fuel cell project going, as well as a commercial venture to come up with a practical device that’s going to be introduced to the marketplace. It’s been a pleasure talking to you, Dave.
David Wenbert: Thank you very much.
(Closing/transitional music)
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I have the books: Energy from the vacuum by Tom Bearden & The Free Energy Secrets of Cold Electrisety by Lindemann and can send them to does how whants a copy - PDF (migh be illigal, but what´s not these days). I´m going to read these books and surch for the keys whitin. So if no one orders a copy, at least they will get some of the information frome the text. The books can of course be purchases online.
Updates can be found here
GEET
The Tesla Switch
D3
panaceauniversity
/Patrik
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Hydrogenworld
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| Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2008 2:03 am Post subject: |
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I did a search on the net for DELRON, this is an unkown material, but DELRIN appeard. Delrin is a teflon material made by DuPont and this is what WikiAnswer wrote:
| Quote: | | I'm not aware of a material named "Delron", but there is a material called "Delrin" which is a brand name for an acetal polyoxymethylene resin owned by DuPont. It is a hard resin approved for food handling use by the FDA. It is an economical material with properties of good strength, light weight, and self-lubrication. It is commonly used in the food industry, toys and in paint-ball markers. Grades with higher toughness and strength are used in ski-bindings, gears, and many other applications; typically those which require moderate strength and low-friction. |
Link>Delrin
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Hydrogenworld
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| Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2008 2:05 am Post subject: |
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And by the way. This post deals whit Voltage Breakdown, not electrolyser. No this might be important to know if someone use the Myere PWM together whit an electrolyser - that want work. This is another principal.
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Jehu
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| Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2008 7:41 pm Post subject: |
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| Humm, interesting what they said about pulling the electrons out of the water. That'swhat AlaskaStar and I have been talking about in another thread. |
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Hydrogenworld
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| Posted: Sat Nov 01, 2008 6:28 am Post subject: |
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YES Jehu - Energy from Vacuum. It´s so obvious now, we are all a victim of a great misunderstanding, so Meyer was "telling" the truth after all.
Even if one can get OU from the electrolyser it want get glose to what voltage breakdown achieves.
...
So what do we do now? continue our research on the electrolyser or do we let it go. I say, let go of the electrolyser, it is (from now on) a thing of the past.
The future IS the Voltage Breakdown Capacitore simply becose you have two things in this. A water battery and an hydrogen/oxygen producer.
I cant see one argument or reason to why someone after knowing this whould chase after the electrolyser, but hey, i did not say that we know everything right a way.. no no, there is much to learn yet.
/Patrik
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Jehu
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| Posted: Sat Nov 01, 2008 9:00 pm Post subject: |
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Well, from what I see with that, it's not actually a dielectric brakedown. Remember alot of backyard inventors make up their own terms for what is going on that may not be correct. This then will confuse the naysayers who will go looking in dthe wrong place for what the inventor is talking about, they get confused and then state "No, this is a fake", all because the inventor didn't bother to use the right terminology and then confuses the observers. I've seen this a few times, even on this forum and I must say it gets discouroging. Everyone gets confused and te inventor getrs soo ticked he/she will say "stuff you all, you're all idiots, I'm going to where someone understands what I'm talking about" and then we loose a valueble member.
So remember, use the correct terminiology so we can understan eachother properly and also let everyone understand us as well. |
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Hydrogenworld
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| Posted: Sun Nov 02, 2008 3:13 am Post subject: |
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You are so right Jehu, and i hope i´m doing so.
Dealing whit the Voltage Breakdown Capacitor (i preffer this designation) we are dealing whit: Electron Extraction, we are litterly pulling the electrones out of the water - i´m sure there is a term for this? and i´m sure that em is involved?
Now, here´s another question:
The Delrin acts as an voltage inhibiter/barrier to a surten point. And when the voltage in the katode reach a critical point we get a discharge (maximum load point). Is this not a pulsing method on it´s own? The charging time is fixed depending on how fast you´r adding the voltage .. right?
If this is true, the only reason why you need to pulse the voltage is the time the water needs to fill the space between the electrodes ...
I think i actyally need to read more of the document´s i have, try to consentrate on this, taking a break from the electrolyser!! 
...
Polyoxymethylene plastic
IF the only true thing whit delrin is it´s property as an resistance, why not look at that? i cant finde any info on it´s electrical propaty (resistance) and i think a formal letter to DuPont is necessary.
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chemelec
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| Posted: Sun Nov 02, 2008 10:43 am Post subject: |
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| Hydrogenworld wrote: | You are so right Jehu, and i hope i´m doing so.
Dealing whit the Voltage Breakdown Capacitor (i preffer this designation) we are dealing whit: Electron Extraction, we are litterly pulling the electrones out of the water - i´m sure there is a term for this? and i´m sure that em is involved?
Now, here´s another question:
The Delrin acts as an voltage inhibiter/barrier to a surten point. And when the voltage in the katode reach a critical point we get a discharge (maximum load point). Is this not a pulsing method on it´s own? The charging time is fixed depending on how fast you´r adding the voltage .. right?
If this is true, the only reason why you need to pulse the voltage is the time the water needs to fill the space between the electrodes ...
I think i actyally need to read more of the document´s i have, try to consentrate on this, taking a break from the electrolyser!!
...
Polyoxymethylene plastic
IF the only true thing whit delrin is it´s property as an resistance, why not look at that? i cant finde any info on it´s electrical propaty (resistance) and i think a formal letter to DuPont is necessary. |
Simply Put: Delrin is just a "Good Insulating Plastic Material".
It has Good High Resistance properties, relatively good Frequency Characteristics and its Quite Low in Water Content.
Nylon also works, but it has a Higher water Content and also Warps in shape more easily.
Delrin is also Available as a "Glass Filled Delrin".
It is just as good of an Insulator, But its Tougher, Much More Stable and better for Machining.
(Although it Much more Abrasive to the Tool Bits.)
I Use Both of these materials for High Frequency, HV Transformers.
Even Much Better is "Teflon", But Not so easy to work with.
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Hydrogenworld
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| Posted: Sun Nov 02, 2008 11:44 am Post subject: |
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Thank´s Chemelec.
I´v known about teflon (delrin is a teflon material), a good friend suggested it as an insulator in the electrolyser.
I´m just starting to understand what this is all about, notice the word starting  and what the "secret" to the VBC is, and i have some documents describing what the secret is. Now, looking at the "evidence" here and what the documents might reveal can give us the answers we need.
Now dealing whit teflon as an insulator, the first questione here (that pops into my head) is:
Isn´t there an upper limit, a limit wich we do not whant to pass? to much of an recistor? (somewhere between zero and infinit...  ), if someone knows this limit or how to calculate it then pleas write about it, or at least point the rest of the herd to the well of visdom.
Note to self: You´v got to read more electrochemestry! .. lol
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chemelec
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| Posted: Sun Nov 02, 2008 6:52 pm Post subject: |
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Search for Dielectric Breakdown of Delrin.
I make transformer of over 100KV with Delrin.
Its more about material thickness, Capacitance Effects, Temperature and Frequency of operation.
But with High Voltages, It will be more likely to Arc around it than Through it.
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Hydrogenworld
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| Posted: Mon Nov 03, 2008 8:43 am Post subject: |
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Chemelec
This is what i found:
Property: *ASTM Test Method **Units ***Delrin® 150
Electrical:
Volume Resistivity:----*D257---**ohm-cm---***10^15
Dielectric Strength:---*D149---**V/mil---***500
Dielectric Constant, @ 60 Hz, 73°F, 50% RH:---*D150---***3.7
Dielectric Constant, @ 1 MHz:---*D150---***3.7
Dissipation Factor, @ 60 HZ,73°F:---*D150---***0.005
Link
Can someone whit electrical knowledge turn this in to usfull information? i´m not there yet. (thanks)
...
Now for something ells. As you know i am a member on scribd and i upload documents that i finde (i´v got some new oness that i´m going over and these will be uploaded in a near future), but anyway, a guy contacted me and where having problems reading/downloading one of the Bendini documents so i send it to him on he´s email. He wrote a new message to me and the contact between me and "John" is evolving, and i finde it fairly interesting and exciting. After the initial message about the document this email appeard in my inbox:
(I´m not going to reveal who he is or every word we change between each other for the moment)
| Quote: | John:
Very cool... Maybe you and I were destined to meet. I am somewhat familiar with the work of Stan Meyer. Somewhere in my possession, I may have what you might consider the holy grail of the technology. A process called Super Electrolysis. Supposedly, I have not made an attempt yet, though I did gather all the parts, it can produce 20,000 liters of Hydrogen gas an hour.
I have actually spoken directly with Dr. Peter Lindemann , the guy who back engineered the Ed Gray cold electricity motor / apparatus. I have also spoken with Jon Hutchison, though I am not as familiar with him as I am with Peter.
Since you seem to be focused on the Meyers stuff, do you have all his videos and presentations? I have decent copies of them also.
I need your email address again because I accidently deleted the message here. My apologies. As soon as I get my equipment moved over to the new building in our datacenter I will be back up and running fully. Right now I am enjoying the quiet.
Here is a list of the top level catagories, if you tell me which ones you would like a listing of, I can make text files and shoot them over when I get your address again. (index not presentet here).
Again, sorry for the delays. I am about to head out of town in the next few days to go to the office. Figure I should show up at least once before the end of the year. Anyways, with me, I am bringing close to 400 gigs of my private library. I will probably put a copy on a server at the datacenter, which will give me and some close friends 100mbit access.
1 book I think you may like, which I had to pay $300 for is Secrets_of_Cold_War_Technology_by.Gerry.Vassilatos_ISBN0945685203.pdf. I am told it is the the ultimate book on Tesla Technology. Got it scanned and OCRd perfectly...
Let me know what you think...
John
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Exciting... a change is on it´s way definitely, but this is not the only reason why i´m telling you this, there is more.
I told you that the initial post needed furter investigation right. Well, here it comes. The text i´m presenting here is from a yahoo group allsow doing research on the technologie and this is what the founder wrote. (Pay atention to the text)
| Quote: | First, I have some things to say about this group. Me and a1c3m founded this group from discussions we had had over at http://www.icubenetwork.com/forum/ where our thinking came to the only solution possible about Meyer's systems. We came to the conclusion via Meyer's setup and his many patents and technical briefs that he was attempting to use VOLTAGE ONLY to SPLIT apart the water molecules. There is so much more to the issue of the key to Meyer's circuits then simply using a Bedini SG. I shall explain below.
The main theory behind the work of Meyer, and something exclusive to his research, is the idea that water can be split or literally PULLED apart by a electostatic force, i.e. VOLTAGE POTENTIAL. Potential by
itself is the ability to do work. The existance of this massive potential across water molecules will be greater then the electrostatic bonds that hold the water molecules together and cause
the H2O to be literally pulled apart.
The problem people seem to have with Meyer's idea of splitting water via voltage potential is that once you build up a voltage across two plates in water, before the voltage level needed to split the water is reached, the voltage will cause the electrons on the plates to surge across the water in an arc of current and thereby lower the
voltage. They feel this will continually happen and there is no way around this, hence they see with their limited and 300 year old EE modeled eyes that you can't charge the plates of a capacitor with
only potential and not current. They feel that the only way to charge the plates of a capacitor is via POWER dissipation from a SOURCE.
But, as clearly shown in many experimental setups, you CAN charge a capacitor via potential alone. Tesla was a master at transfering potential alone. Tesla's single wire systems transfered only potential, just as Bedini's SG output is also SOLELY POTENTIAL and has NO ELECTRON COMPONENT.
The reason me and a1c3m opened this group and suggested initially to use and build a Bedini SG was because this was the simplest way, in many ways, that people could INTRODUCE themselves to how this
POTENTIAL ONLY / LONGITUDINAL WAVE / COLD ELECTRICITY / RADIANT ENERGY really functions, and how to produce it and handle it.
Many of you might be familiar with the work of Edwin Gray. His circuitry was almost identical to that of Tesla's and it utilized this POTENTIAL ONLY for the overunity powering of lamps and motors, just as Tesla had. One demonstration of note, that helps to demonstrate how POTENTIAL ONLY can split water without electron
current, that Gray used to do was to power a light bulb strictry with this energy and to place the LIT light bulb into a container filled with water. He would then place his hand in the water with the bulb and the bulb will still be lit and his hand would be fine. I must say that the energy used by Gray was also used by Tesla and Sweet, etc.
and they all seem to be in agreement that this energy acts oppositely to normal electricity, whereas water is a conductor to normal electricity, to this new energy water is a insulator. If this is even partly true, this would explain how Meyer could charge up his WFC with HUGE POTENTIALS and not have electron current arcing.
I feel that what Meyer developed was in no way optimal though. Meyer had a basic idea of the process for producing this VOLTAGE POTENTIAL ALONE, but many of the things in his circuits lead to the fact that
he didn't have a complete grasp on the issue. Meyer used what he called a resonant charging choke circuit to produce and transfer potential alone. But, he also used special SS resistive wiring, and
implemented other means to stop the electron flow. If Meyer truely had a grasp on the issue, like Edwin Gray or Tesla had, he could eliminated the special SS wiring, the chokes, and other minute things
as these would NOT be needed as ONLY POTENTIAL ITSELF would move from the SOURCE DIPOLE to the WFC and split the water apart.
I have to say that, I have much more that I am holding back at this time, mostly because my hands hurt from typing, lol. No, but seriously I will be doing a formal writeup in a formal paper once my system in running in it's entirety. There is A LOT of information and specifics I left out from the above document. There are much easier and solid state methods to produce POTENTIAL ALONE. I have been researching in great depths these various methods and have formulated and written in my journals extensive notes on how and why these things will work best in a WFC setup, as opposed to just using a Bedini SG. I refuse to take on this task lightly and just jump in full force and hook things together when the basis isn't sound. Since March now, I have formed this much needed solid basis of logic and complete understanding of exactly how water spliting can be achieved without POWER, just POTENTIAL. I am combining many elements from past inventors, to name a few, Tesla, Avramenko, Meyer, Bedini, Kron,
Sweet, Chernetski. Once I have perfected in my mind the ciruitry based on the KNOWN effects and generations of this POTENTIAL, I shall build what is needed and apply this to a water capacitor setup. My goal is a overunity water splitting cell by Jan 1 2006. Enough time to continue the design process, test the various setups, apply them
to different WFC setups, etc.
If you have any questions about what I wrote or anything let me know. I also want to say that I didn't include all the references to back up all the information I have in the above post because I will be doing that in the formal paper. I can back up all I have said abovewith extensive references.
I ask that in the interim, you all might want to look into making the firestorm type plugs as me and a1c3m talked about as a homebrew type setup as I feel this is the fastest and cheapest way to quickly increase our mpg now while this water splitting tech is still being perfected by us here and around the world. Just a thought.
...
I also want to say one more thing about expectancy of the final water fuel cell setup -It should contain ZERO electrolyte, and as plain as water can be is best
-The wire(s) leading to the SS electrodes should have ZERO electron current flow in them, meaning they only transfer LONGITUDINAL WAVES / COLD ELECTRICITY / VOLTAGE POTENTIAL / RADIANT ENERGY / DIRAC HOLES / ETC.
-The SS electrodes, when having a PURE POTENTIAL upon them, will have ZERO extra electrons placed upon them from the fuel cell's powering source. (Only the electrons in the water and in the SS electrodes
will be there, no ADDED electrons). So, when the water capacitor in the fuel cell is at a given potential, it will not have gotten that way via electron charging of that capacitor in any shape or form!
-The water molecules and anything else in the water will experience a force greater then their electrostatic bonds, which will split the H2O molecules instantly.
-At a high enough VOLTAGE POTENTIAL the water will simply explode, as was evidenced by Meyer's 'latest' and final technology involving the water fuel injectors.
-The final product will function is NO WAY WHATSOEVER like a ELERCTRON CURRENT based ELECTROLYSIS setup.
...
Perhaps I should explain the reason for those posts. They are to let everyone know the reason behind this group and exactly how the fuel cell of Meyer worked. This is the reason behind these posts.
As I stated, I am not offering solutions at this moment. The Bedini SG is a method to make the right type of PURE POTENTIAL pulses, but they have to be of the right high voltage levels and be delivered to the ss electrodes in the water at a high frequency and without ANY electron current. The SG CAN do it, but just hooking it right up and
expecting it to work isn't what we are telling the people who visit this group.
I have explained the whole workings of why and how Meyer's system worked, and how I am going about perfect in the power supply for my own.
Please don't take my postings as a complete how to. That will come later. For now, take what I have written as a series of abstract instructions on how to split water, and as the explanation on how Meyer operated his system, knowingly or not.
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Are we (me) leaving the electrolyser? it looks like this is becoming a truth and this is just the first level of investigations on this technologie.
Radiant energy, Tesla, the Gray tube and so on... well, these are breadcrumbs right now, but i hope they will be solid evidence in a near future. And if one whants to understand what rediant energy is should read The Quantum Key by Aaron C. Murakami. Count me in on that
...
I invited John to read this post and he answered a question:
| Quote: | Hey, I also read your post on OUpower... The reason he pulses the current going in to the electrolyzer is to increase the charge value. By pulsing the voltage, you get an order of magnitude, what some refer to as back emf. This is why radar and other systems of that nature used pulses instead of just steady on beams. If you read the tesla literature, the back emf can be anywhere from 10 to 100 x the initial charge on the line. So by pusling 10,000 volts, which is pretty easy to do with any neon transformer now a days, you can get 100k volt pulses splitting the water molecules... hope that helps.. John
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Yeas John it helps so thanks.
So this is what i´v got so fare. More answers and more questions .. as usual.
/Patrik
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chemelec
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Location: B.C. Canada
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| Posted: Mon Nov 03, 2008 11:22 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | Hydrogenworld Wrote: Chemelec
This is what i found:
Property: *ASTM Test Method **Units ***Delrin® 150
Electrical:
Volume Resistivity:----*D257---**ohm-cm---***10^15
Dielectric Strength:---*D149---**V/mil---***500
Dielectric Constant, @ 60 Hz, 73°F, 50% RH:---*D150---***3.7
Dielectric Constant, @ 1 MHz:---*D150---***3.7
Dissipation Factor, @ 60 HZ,73°F:---*D150---***0.005
Link
Can someone whit electrical knowledge turn this in to usfull information? i´m not there yet. (thanks) |
Well it makes sense to me.
But First you need to determine What You Want to use the Delrin for?
Basically, If its just a DC Voltage application, Delrin will withstand 500 Volts per "Mil" of thickness. (1 Mil = .001 Inch)
As I inferred previously, Its quite a good insulator for high voltages.
If your working with high frequency voltages, unusual waveforms, or you want to get into capacitance effects, it gets "considerably more complicated".
Sorry but its Not easy for me to explain it all on here.
Maybe its time to go to your Public Library and study these other terms.
Hope your good in Mathematics, lots of formulas.
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Hydrogenworld
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Joined: 18 Feb 2008
Posts: 330
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Tue Nov 04, 2008 10:00 am Post subject: |
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Thanks Chemelec.
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Hydrogenworld
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Joined: 18 Feb 2008
Posts: 330
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Sun Nov 09, 2008 6:27 pm Post subject: |
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I´v contained a new document that will help me in understanding Meyers WFC. This document is the firs replication that includes Delrin and it´s usage and property. This is good news. I allsow feel that i must express that a novel method called "Super electrolesys" exist, capable of producing 333L/min whit very little energy input. I do not believe that it produce OU - but that it lays somewhere between 80-90%.
I am allsow investigating the usage of cold electrisety/radiant energy and constructing a circuit and unit that works as an electrone extraction cell.
...
And as an apendix to this. For those who have seen a video on the internet containing a device called Elemental Rods (real name is Electromagnetic Radiation Reciever - ERR). The initial explanation clames that the two rods are made of 73 and 74 elements, this is not true. The technology is much simpler than that and it is NOT opperated by a battery.
This technology exist and it is real. The device in the video are prototype no 7 - producing 18 watts DC, a prototype no 8 and 9 does allsow exist, but is of more advance in nature. It does not break any physical laws as i am starting to understand it. I´m not going to answer any question at this time, but will reveal information when i have a solid result. Please have patience.
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