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OUPower.com • View topic - Pure hydrogen production and storage

Pure hydrogen production and storage

This forum is for discussing anything related to electrolysis and electrolyzer designs.

Postby Jehu » Tue Aug 03, 2010 10:16 am

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Postby clflyguy » Tue Aug 03, 2010 10:18 am

OK, I really dislike pissing contests with plank owning big number posters because all it ends up doing is raising my blood pressure, and I’m certainly not going to convince YOU of anything but I’m feeling a bit ornery today so here goes…

I want to make pure hydrogen gas and store it in a small propane container. Approximately one kilo or more at something like 2000 to 4000 p.s.i.

Why didn’t someone just tell him that LP tanks max out about 200psi?

Is there a gadjet that can filtrate the oxygen out of normal hho produced by conventionnal electric electrolysis ?

[i][b]Why didn’t someone just say “No, there is too much oxygen in the HHO mix and it will burn up the catalytic scrubberâ€
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Postby chemelec » Tue Aug 03, 2010 10:21 am

Compressing Hydrogen OR Oxygen into Tanks is OK and quite Safe.

But Compressing a Mixture of Hydrogen and Oxygen into the Same tank is REALLY STUPID.

Any Ignition on the output line will shurly go back and Blow up the tank!
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Postby Jehu » Tue Aug 03, 2010 10:33 am

To everyone else reading this.

We are in general not talking about using professional equipment. Most of these things we do here are literely held together with fencing wire and duct tape. That's why we cringed about putting 2kPSI in and LPG bottle.

If someone is wondering why no one said something like an LPG bottle maxes out at 200PSI, it's because no one asked.

Remember to ask questions. If you don't ask questions, even if you think they might be stupid, you could get some wires crossed somewhere.

In regards to the statement about where most people get their H from, who are we talking about? Is it the guy at the metal fab shop, the big industries or the little dude in his back shed trying to squeeze a few extra clicks out of his tank? It could be anyone. But in this case it's the little guy in his shed.

Remember, context. Ask questions and don't jump to conclusions.
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@Chemelec

Postby clflyguy » Tue Aug 03, 2010 12:13 pm

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Non-Shat

Postby SeaMonkey » Tue Aug 03, 2010 2:21 pm

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Postby bababa1 » Wed Aug 04, 2010 12:33 am

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Postby Jehu » Wed Aug 04, 2010 9:51 am

Ahh, ok, so kinda like a nos style booster but delivering a constant delivery of H. Ok, it's doable, I had the same idea a few years back actually, but there is a few problems with it.

A big part of it is in storage of the hydrogen. The fact is there is more hydrogen in 1 Liter of Gasoline than there is in 1L of liquid hydrogen. Even the big tanks that can hold alot that are designed for use in converted cars tend to run out quickly. Though you don't have to worry about keeping it up right lie a booster

Contrast that with having a booster. Booster can provide a few psi which should be all you need, it's stable, not having to worry what is going to happen in an accident as it's pretty much just water and an electrolyte, most likely a smaller form factor and they are pretty reliable.

Oh and in regards to what burns hotter, I did some research and apparently the only way to get H to burn hotter than the other gasses I mentioned is to pass the stream of H2 through an electric arc. This splits the H2 into 2 H and that is where the real heat some from. However...I don't know if it is worth doing this in terms of total power used to split it vs the extra power from the added heat you will get.

Now, about the dyno. I don't know that much about them but this is what I do know. The basic idea is to get the rollers to spin as fast as you can. That's why you might see someone swap off their wide tires and put thin ones on, less friction and not as sticky compound slowing the parting of the rear tread from the rollers.

Now I'm not sure if they have a load on the rollers for some resistance. But knowing that the idea is to get it going as fast as it can one could theoretically find the power output by using a tacometer and a stop watch and a lot of maths. This is called an inertia dyno. The idea is to spin up a flywheel of a know weight to an rpm in a certain amount of time. once you have the data, weight and inertia of flywheel, rpm, time, accelleration, ect, you can then work out the power and torque.

I'm actually looking at a few sites now to find the calcs you need as I've forgotten them all and my notes from tafe are all packed away somewhere.

Ok, found a good one here hopefully this should have all the info you need on the dyno.

As to the other things, yeah, give them a go. Methane is great as a low pressure fuel for a stove, lamp or generator suppliment. It doesn't like to be compressed though but at least it's not getting vented to the atmosphere as it's a worse greenhouse gas than CO2.

Ethanol is also good since you can buy everything commercially. Just go down to your local homebrew store as they have everything you need. If you know how to make moonshine, you can make your own ethanol fuel. I've been meaning to buy myself a still for a long while now and many of them can pull a 96% ethanol from the first run which is all you are gonna need if you plan on burning it and not drinking it.

As for the 5w electrolyser, a few of us have made them but for some strange reason we haven't actually run them to see if it works, lol. I've pretty much finished mine about a year ago but never bothered to fire it up yet. Btw it is an induction based one. Basically it's a 555 timer switching a MOSFET at a high frequency which is then pulsed through a coil of about 3000 turns. The coil is wrapped around a piece of 2in pvc tubing, capped at one end and filled with a saturated solution of NaOH. That's it basically.

Umm, that's all I can think of for now.
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Postby bababa1 » Wed Aug 04, 2010 2:25 pm

jehu, stay away from my tread. it's not a head F&%K tread.
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Postby Jehu » Thu Aug 05, 2010 10:43 am

just tryin to help
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Postby SeaMonkey » Thu Aug 05, 2010 1:52 pm

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Postby bababa1 » Thu Aug 05, 2010 5:18 pm

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High Density Hydrogen storage

Postby SeaMonkey » Thu Aug 05, 2010 5:57 pm

The most basic and inexpensive method of storing
Hydrogen at a high density is by means of Ammonia.

Ammonia (NH3) in its water-free, anhydrous state
liquifies under moderate pressure in steel tanks.

It may also be dissolved in water and 'boiled'
out with gentle heating.

Ammonia has been used as a hydrogen fuel but
it has some drawbacks; it is very pungent and
hazardous in low concentrations in air. It must
be used very cautiously. It does work well.







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Ammonia as Hydrogen Fuel

Postby SeaMonkey » Thu Aug 05, 2010 6:11 pm

Okay, because it is a good link.
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Postby bababa1 » Fri Aug 06, 2010 10:35 am

ok thanks it's been fun
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