[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 112: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 112: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 112: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 112: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 112: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 112: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 112: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 112: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/functions.php on line 4752: Cannot modify header information - headers already sent by (output started at [ROOT]/includes/functions.php:3887)
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/functions.php on line 4754: Cannot modify header information - headers already sent by (output started at [ROOT]/includes/functions.php:3887)
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/functions.php on line 4755: Cannot modify header information - headers already sent by (output started at [ROOT]/includes/functions.php:3887)
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/functions.php on line 4756: Cannot modify header information - headers already sent by (output started at [ROOT]/includes/functions.php:3887)
OUPower.com • View topic - Guy´s - the secret to Stanely Meyer is OUT!!!

Guy´s - the secret to Stanely Meyer is OUT!!!

This forum is for discussing anything related to electrolysis and electrolyzer designs.

Postby Hydrogenworld » Sat Oct 03, 2009 11:26 pm

And so do I .. :D (kidding)
The thing is that moste people doesent understand what Meyer did whit he's WFC (and take notice here that WFC stands for Water Fuel Capacitor) it is actualy a hidden codex whit in the technologie and in order to break it up and understand what this means you need to understand the principle behind Meyers construction and said method in use.
Now before i answer that i just whant the forum to know that the project i am working on now is nascent hdyrogen (or molar hydrogen) and use a simple formula;

H2 + e -> 2H + e -> ENERGY -> H2 (simplyfied). It is an advanced step in hydrogen technology where the H2 gas is turned into a "plasma" pre charged hydrogen gas and upon entering "a" combustion chamber the hydrogen molecule is splitt into H ions, both as cations and anion. A plasma phase starts and fuse the H ions together releasing more energy then to splitt the molecule. This generates heat and photons which interacts whit the the formation of H2 molecules. Much of this result becomes hot hydrogen gas that expands and thus creates a phusing force on "a" piston or similar. This is done in several steps, but mainly in a new conversion injector that have two purposes - to create nascent hydrogen and to introduce a electromagnetic event, ionisation and heat exhange to get said reluts. The end result is what yoyu see in the formula - H2 -> 2H -> H2.
But enough about that, now for the answer to you question;

There is two technics that Meyer used - first is WFC and the last is he's Water Injector okey, now these two are different, both in how they work and how they are constructed, but they do share a common thing and that is called An Electromagnetic Event or as Meyer calls it By Means of Voltage Breakdown. - he did actually use and also invented many names in parts to confuse the reader and in doing so made moste people unable to understand the strange event in he's tubes. But there is nothing strange going on and he is not breaking any law in physics, there is no magic taking place, it can all be explained whit proper science.

Voltage can be defined as an electric potential (charge) at a point in space. Voltage can be of a positive charge, defined as a lack of electrons
Or a negative charge, defined as an excess of electrons. Voltage is the driving force that causes the movement of electrons (current flow) In Physics we know that like charges repel, and opposite charges attract .
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voltage
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_potential
http://physics.bu.edu/py106/notes/Charge.html

The opposite charges attract each other to hold atoms and molecules together. In the water molecule the charge that holds the atoms together is known as a covalent bond. Looking at the water molecule:
If you look at the water molecule, you'll quickly find the way that it is arranged the atoms have seperate charges, The Hydrogen atoms have a positive charge and the oxygen atoms carries a negative charge.
Now we know that voltage is an electrical attraction force, which can cause current (electrons) to flow by moving them from one atom to another.

We know that there are two charges, Positive and negative. A positive charge being defined as a lack of electrons. A negative charge being defined as an excess of electrons. We also know in physics everything must reach a stable state, so when a difference in potential exists current flows until there is no difference in potential (all atoms reach a stable state). So, if we place the water molecule between two plates charged with opposite voltages, we know that the electrons spinning around the atom will all be attracted toward the positive plate, and the proton will be attracted toward the negative plate, the higher the charges become the further the atom will be pulled apart, until eventually the molecule splits into it's component atoms.


Now, to go a little deeper. If we have a wire, and each side of that wire has an equal, but opposite charge, current will begin to flow. The moving electrons (current flow) will fill in voids (areas with missing electrons) at one side of the circuit. This will cause many previously positive charges to combine with electrons (negative charges) to reach a stable state, cancelling out there charge, meaning that voltage potential will decrease.

In common electrolysis the water has an electrolyte added to make the water more conductive (current flows easier). This causes an excessive current flow, which decreases the voltage potential (as described above). Electrolysis has been proven to be most efficient at less than 2 volts.

"A cell operating at the theoretical voltage of 1.23 volts is 100 percent efficient. The amount of voltage above 1.23 required to operate the cell is
wasted. The objective, then, is to make a cell that will operate
as close to this voltage as possible."

So with electrolysis the voltage with the highest efficiency is only 1.23 Volts. As we know voltage is an electrical attraction force, 1.23 Volts is not much.

If we were able to increase the voltage, and restrict current flow we could break the current model of 1.23 volts peak potential by hundreds or even thousands of percent more! That is exactly what Stan did. To make his method the most efficient he used what is known as a resonant charging choke circuit. The circuit is a LC circuit which can be operated at resonance for maximum efficiency. In an LC circuit resonance is when the capacitive reactance and the inductive reactance cancel each other out, meaning that the circuit can operate at it's maximum amplitude, in this case amplitude is referring to voltage while amp flow is restricted.

"A word of caution is in order with series LC resonant circuits: because of the high currents which may be present in a series LC circuit at resonance, it is possible to produce dangerously high voltage drops across the capacitor and the inductor"

To increase efficiency even more Stan added inductors to the circuit, the inductors build up a magnetic field when current is flowing through them, and the field collapses when current stops causing an extra pulse of the same polarity when a blocking diode is used.

In the case of splitting water, it only makes sense that the longer the voltage was applied to the water the more water would be split. So when Stan added the inductors to the circuit he did them for that exact reason. A secondary (high voltage transformer/inductor) and the water capacitor had a large off time, but by adding inductors he can do the following:

In the resonant charging choke circuit, the circuit contains 3 inductors, one which is the secondary of the transformer: The two chokes do the following: When a magnetic field is created (by the transformer primary) and collapses it creates a pulse through the secondary winding which goes through the chokes and creates a magnetic field around them, as the magnetic field collapses around the chokes another pulse is created. Because of the way the circuit works it prevents the capacitor from discharging. As Stan States in patent # 4,936,961: talking about the Resonant Charging Choke circuit:
"In this manner a continuous voltage is produced across the capacitor plates…â€
- You never change things by fighting the existing reality. To change something, build a new model that makes the existing model obsolete -
User avatar
Hydrogenworld
Regular Poster
 
Posts: 333
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2008 11:42 pm
Location: Sweden

Postby canpower » Sun Oct 04, 2009 12:02 am

Wow, that's quite the reply!

I was just hoping to receive a reply with a link to a schematic, not a whole lesson in electronics...lol.

I understand why you posted that, you want people to understand the basis on which the design works.

Most of what I read, I am already familiar with. At this point, I just want to get started building something, so can you provide a schematic to us so I/we can get started in the circuit construction?

Your help is greatly appreciated!

;)
canpower
 
Posts: 10
Joined: Thu Oct 01, 2009 4:26 pm
Location: Halifax, Nova Scotia

Postby Hydrogenworld » Sun Oct 04, 2009 1:25 am

ooh, JUST a scematich ey.. hmm, there does actually exist some information on that to, but the rule is as follows; Know your work and then you'll know your results, whould'nt you say?
I can provide something you yourself can build - it is "simple" set up performed by NJLabs:

http://jnaudin.free.fr/wfc/index.htm

If you understand the principle of the capacitor you can go on and construct a circuit that fits you personaly. I am not an expert on electronics, so i am still learning and that applys to all the other stuff to. It boils down to how you want to put the tech in use so to say. As an exempel i provide here an image i did;

Concentric Tube Capacitor vs paralell Plate Capacitor vs PPC whit voltage inhibiter:
http://s859.photobucket.com/albums/ab15 ... acitor.jpg

It is all about understanding what you are dealing whit and also understanding Meyer. Now, remember that i wrote that electrones will be snapped off of te oxygen atom, Meyer called this "Electron Clustering" - becous of the collection of electrons, this is known as Electron Avalanche:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electron_avalanche

And what do we get if we stripe atome of electrones, we get ionization.. and so on, the list gets loong ones you start to understand what Meyer did.
But NJLabs should get you started.

Meyers VIC is based upon Tesla Coils and a good book for this is:
http://www.amazon.com/ULTIMATE-Tesla-De ... 0071497374

and you can also take a look at this document:
http://nenki.com/stanley_meyer/mise_en_ ... ircuit.pdf

You can follow it here;
http://www.waterfuelcell.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=410

Then you have LC and RLC circuits:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LC_circuit
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RLC_circuit

And here is some more for ya..
http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable ... sions.html

... Now can you just leave me alone...
There you go :D , kidding, it's fine to ask and have questions and what do we do when we dont know - we ask someone that do know or have some ideas about it. Now, for the advanced project that i am working on, there is not that many people to ask, so i am left on my own and since there doesent exist a similar project, that means that i am the frontier of that thechnologie.
But anyway, you can use a Kelvine Generator or similar to produce you electrostatic electricity and that should work to or to get realy advanced, cold electricity since CE is pure voltage potential, now how about that last part.. interesting?
http://tesla.tribe.net/thread/8100b8e7- ... 6de1947e07
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrostatics

Have a nice day!
- You never change things by fighting the existing reality. To change something, build a new model that makes the existing model obsolete -
User avatar
Hydrogenworld
Regular Poster
 
Posts: 333
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2008 11:42 pm
Location: Sweden

Postby Hydrogenworld » Sun Oct 04, 2009 1:27 am

Oh and by the way, my initial responce was made to everyone ells as well, i just did not feel like leaving anything out this time.. hope my point is clear.
So what do we do whit the electrolyser??.. c mon, you know the anwser to this question, just write it down and make me a happy guy.. okey?

:D
- You never change things by fighting the existing reality. To change something, build a new model that makes the existing model obsolete -
User avatar
Hydrogenworld
Regular Poster
 
Posts: 333
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2008 11:42 pm
Location: Sweden

Postby resident_genius » Sun Oct 04, 2009 10:00 pm

the electrolyser technology has been- and always will be- band-aid on a gunshot wound. the fact is that the technology is real- the little 'lysers work and work well. they help the average backyard tinkerer the experience of spending hundreds of dollars in research and development to save tiny amounts of money. but damn, we all need hobbies.

i cannot tell you how many countless hours i have spent working and re-working the electrolyser. from basic theory to plate arrangement experiments to even swapping in H202 and KOH to see what happens- shoot, i'd love to play with some heavy water, see what happens.

they arent the solution though. that much is apparent. it gives me something to do, now i've got a "Hydrogen Multi-Fuel Vehicle" sticker on the back, soon to have my website and custom domain on there as well....

...9 months till i'm out of the military- i've gotta have an exit strategy.
where is the line between tinkerer and scientist, scientist and madman, madman and genius?

http://resident-genius.com
'Nuff said.

Latest Endeavor:
http://www.youtube.com/user/SimonG2892?feature=mhw5
User avatar
resident_genius
Regular Poster
 
Posts: 612
Joined: Sat May 20, 2006 2:52 pm
Location: New jersey

Postby Hydrogenworld » Mon Oct 05, 2009 2:19 pm

The thing is that it is not that much more expencive to construckt this type of WFC (Meyer replication) then building a good electrolyser and if we also look at the fact that the WFC system only consumes some 3-5A*12V that makes it more then interesting, also there is now KOH & NAOH in use, simplu H2O. but remember that yuou want the water to have a hight electro resistance or els current will flow.

What you want is a dielectric failur inside the capacitor, you want to get that voltage breakdown or reach the treshold of the water where all the voltage i sturned into amp that delivers an energy chock truout the dielectric inside the capacitor whch in this case is the water.

But for them how feels taht the electrolyser is the methid, go right ahead and use that - i am not the one to tell everyone ells which type of solution they are going to use.
- You never change things by fighting the existing reality. To change something, build a new model that makes the existing model obsolete -
User avatar
Hydrogenworld
Regular Poster
 
Posts: 333
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2008 11:42 pm
Location: Sweden

Postby Goofy » Sat Jan 08, 2011 2:57 pm

Goofy
Regular Poster
 
Posts: 51
Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2007 5:50 pm
Location: Belgium

Higer voltage

Postby nickle989 » Wed Jan 19, 2011 10:11 am

I use a rectified oil furnace ignition system put the voltage above the 10kV with low milliamps. I know for a certain that I get way more fuel this way then with lower amperage. The caution though is that you must have all the cells submerged else you WILL get a sparking across the plates. I have been working on a PLL for quite sometime now that will work at the higher voltage, but the components are quite pricey :( Good to see another another addition here like hydrogen world.
nickle989
Regular Poster
 
Posts: 89
Joined: Mon Aug 07, 2006 3:41 pm

Re: Higer voltage

Postby chemelec » Wed Jan 19, 2011 10:36 am

If you Email Me, the Word "ELECTRONIC" MUST appear in the Subject Line.

My NEW Website is:
http://chemelec.com
chemelec
Regular Poster
 
Posts: 646
Joined: Sun Jan 23, 2005 1:53 pm
Location: B.C. Canada

Postby nickle989 » Wed Jan 19, 2011 12:37 pm

nickle989
Regular Poster
 
Posts: 89
Joined: Mon Aug 07, 2006 3:41 pm

Postby nickle989 » Wed Jan 19, 2011 12:49 pm

nickle989
Regular Poster
 
Posts: 89
Joined: Mon Aug 07, 2006 3:41 pm

Postby kevinsatterfield » Fri Jan 21, 2011 6:49 am

User avatar
kevinsatterfield
Regular Poster
 
Posts: 1874
Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2005 6:19 pm
Location: Dark side of the Moon

Postby kevinsatterfield » Sun Jan 23, 2011 10:40 pm

User avatar
kevinsatterfield
Regular Poster
 
Posts: 1874
Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2005 6:19 pm
Location: Dark side of the Moon

Postby morehp » Mon Jan 24, 2011 3:00 pm

morehp
Regular Poster
 
Posts: 28
Joined: Fri Dec 21, 2007 2:52 pm

Postby kevinsatterfield » Tue Jan 25, 2011 7:51 am

User avatar
kevinsatterfield
Regular Poster
 
Posts: 1874
Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2005 6:19 pm
Location: Dark side of the Moon

PreviousNext

Return to Hydrogen Production via Electrolysis

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

cron