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OUPower.com • View topic - Highly efficient electrolysis

Highly efficient electrolysis

This forum is for discussing anything related to electrolysis and electrolyzer designs.

Highly efficient electrolysis

Postby williamssteve » Wed Apr 15, 2009 7:15 pm

Hi all,


It occurs to me that cat converters may be the perfect DIY water cracking devices for electrolysis.

All cat converters contain PLATINUM ( and some Rhodium etc ) but platinum is one of the best water cracking /dissociation metal catalysts.

What if we try getting a new cat, cutting it up and extracting the internal material, then slicing it up to make HHO plates in a HHO cell?

It seems to me that even allowing for the rhodium and other metals in the cat, the ammount of platinum should make this idea viable.

Also, these cats are designed for high gas flow, and therefore porous and tough - so it should create a large surface area for HHO generation and handle high temps.

Its so simple and easily sourced, I have no idea why I didnt think of it sooner....

Thoughts?
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Postby Jehu » Wed Apr 15, 2009 8:35 pm

Interesting idea.

Usually there are 2 types of cat converter, honeycomb and marbles. I'd say you would need the honeycomb style.

Now for the bit that might cause some problems.

While these biscuits do have PMs in them, the main thing they are made out of is some type of ceramic.

So the question is: Will the PMs in the biscuit be enough to make it conductive?

Also whattypeof electrolyte did you have in mind? I would say that you would be better off going with none and using distilled water as the platinum and palladium in the biscuit would turn it into a form of fuel cell.

Palladium loves to absorb hydrogen and we all know that platinum also is used in PEM fuel cells.


It's an interesting thought.


Here's another one along those lines.


Hard drive platters.


The platters in hard drives over the last 10 years have moved away from the old ferrious type and now havve a coating of either cobolt or,in the case of newer drives, platnium. The main component of the platters are usually aluminium or glass but the ones I've pulled apart have always been Al.

So that could be another route to go down. Only really just thought of that one as I was writing this post. Itmay have been tried before, I dont know, but it would be relitivly easy to assemble as theyare all uniform and balanced to spin at high RPMs.


Anyway, it's all food for thought.
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Postby williamssteve » Wed Apr 15, 2009 9:37 pm

Howdy Jehu,


The hard disk route sounds interesting. I'm looking at the Cats mainly because of the high temperature punishment they would suffer under high amperage loads. That said, where about in the hard drive is the platinum - the platters or the other bits?

That said, if a cat was ceramic, persumably the platinum would be exposed throughout the ceramic and hopefully anough to conduct electricity. Alternatively I could crush the ceramic to possibly extract the platinum manually, although have no idea if this is workable or not.

I guess there is a bit of suck it and see here....

I'd be trying water then KOH later if no joy.

I have also seen people using nickel or nickel/iron plates that have say 50% efficincy in conversion, whereas platinum is about 67% efficient.

I have also wondered why no one has tried nickel cell plates yet?
Nickel is the base stuff used in electroplating and cheap to obtain.

Cheers,

SW
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Postby mos68x » Wed Apr 15, 2009 10:07 pm

Don't forget that platinum is a recombining catalyst, nickel is the one for disassociation. That is why we can't use platinum for plugs in the engines and why they use it in fuel cell applications.
As far as nickel, I have been trying hard to find someone local that can do nickel plating for my SS304 plates and I'm not having any luck. I don't know how to do it myself otherwise I would, just to get it done and save myself some of the cost.
If anyone knows a company that can do it, or knows how to do it ourselves please let me know.
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Postby williamssteve » Thu Apr 16, 2009 1:11 am

Howdy,

Any electroplater company uses nickel as the base coating they put on all metals BEFORE they put the final plating on e.g. chrome.

So...if you give them some SS plates, they can nickel coat them.

FWIW - I read about iron/nickel plates, so you *could* nickel coat normal steel plates ( cheaper too ) then scratch off the nickel coating ion spots so you have an iron-nickel interface. This iron-nickel interface apparently is highly eficient as well. Worth a try......

Let us know how you go.

Cheers

SW
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Postby Jehu » Thu Apr 16, 2009 6:44 am

hey Will.

Yeah the platnium and/or cobolt is in a coating on the surface of the platters. From memory, the platnium ones are in the higher capacity drives, around the 20GBmark and up.

Even so the cobolt platters might be pretty good too as I remember a thread around here somewhere that had a link to a video that mentioned someone has come up with a new catalysis based out of cobolt.

As for crushing the cat monolith, only do that if you intend to go down the difficult route of extracting the PMs from it. I think you would definatly need to use nitric acid to disolve the PMs but even so, from what I recall, generally atm the values of the PMs in it are only worth about $25. So you probably wont have much usable metal after extracting and refining.

Probably best to stick with it in it's original form and slice it into wafers.
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Postby chemelec » Thu Apr 16, 2009 11:44 am

If you Email Me, the Word "ELECTRONIC" MUST appear in the Subject Line.

My NEW Website is:
http://chemelec.com
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Postby williamssteve » Thu Apr 16, 2009 6:07 pm

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Postby Jehu » Thu Apr 16, 2009 7:11 pm

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Postby williamssteve » Thu Apr 16, 2009 7:29 pm

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Postby morehp » Fri Apr 17, 2009 1:17 pm

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Postby mos68x » Sun Apr 19, 2009 12:11 pm

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Postby williamssteve » Sun Apr 19, 2009 6:21 pm

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Highly efficient electrolysis

Postby ismael_34 » Wed Dec 09, 2009 4:49 am

hi friends

look at this link, there is the honeycomb, as you will see is the catalyst of an exhaust pipe of a car, containing palladium

you can also look at the image, and uploaded to the eletrolizador of Daniel Dingel, if I remember right it uses a catalyst des acomular the hydrogen cars


http://www.cientificosaficionados.com/r ... atalizador% 20of% 20coche.htm



http://700yew.bay.livefilestore.com/y1p ... izador.JPG


chauuu
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Highly efficient electrolysis

Postby ismael_34 » Wed Dec 09, 2009 4:55 am

hi friends

The link will ruin the translator, I leave here again


http://www.cientificosaficionados.com/r ... 0coche.htm



chauuu
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