Define "over-unity"

[navi-gator]

As I understand it currently the definition goes something like this...

“any device that the output is greater than the input is an “over-unityâ€

[SeaMonkey]

Navi-Gator,

While many processes have a "theoretical" efficiency of 100%, meaning that all input is converted to output, in truth there are nearly always losses in the process such that the output is in reality some fraction of the input.

If we can find some way to minimize (conventional thinking) the losses to maximize efficiency to a value closer to 100% that we can live with then we're good;

but to find a way to overcome (out of the box thinking) the losses and stimulate the process to get the "free lunch" or "something for nothing" mode then we're in "hog heaven."

[navi-gator]

[SeaMonkey]

Navi-gator,

Yes, that is correct. Over unity would be in excess of 100% efficiency.

Yes, Hydroelectric power and Wind power, and Solar power too, in a sense, could be thought of as over-unity as the source of power is essentially free.

In a purely scientific sense however, the process would be carefully scrutinized to find precisely how much power appears at the input of the generator by calculation, and that amount would be compared to the electrical output to determine the efficiency coefficient.

But, in truth, since the entire source of power in those cases is non-man-made, then it could be thought of as over-unity. Especially once construction costs have been re-captured either by savings or rate charges to customers.

It's a dog eat dog world and big business will do all it can to make certain that there aren't any free lunches for the masses.

Except for those who are clever enough to find ways around their monopolies.

Wish you well in your search for real answers!

[z_p_e]

Folks really ought to be talking in terms of COP, and not efficiency.

Historically, there has been much confusion regarding various terms such as "overunity", "COP", and "efficiency", so explaining them should help sort out the facts.

First, before delving into the explanation, one must understand the difference between an "open" and a "closed" system. Below is an excerpt from a paper I am currently writing:

An Open System is one in which power or energy from outside the device’s immediate domain, may be added to the system for free. This outside energy or power is not the energy or power supplied by you the user to make the system operate, but is energy or power supplied by the environment, universe, aether or ZPF etc. This “outsideâ€

[navi-gator]

Thanks for the input z_p_e_, but with all due respect I disagree with some of your explanation.

I believe it is this type of inside the box thinking that has slowed progress in developement of new technology.

How are you so sure power cannot be developed inside the closed system?

Is the earth not a closed system? Ah...well thats different.

I believe it is the same just on a grander scale. There are too many forces of nature we should be using to our advantage.

We have figured out how to use air/gas and liquids/water why not solid objects?

[z_p_e]

Wow navi-gator,

That's certainly a surprise.

I'm not sure where you're coming from, but the usual response to this type of thinking is that it is too far outside the box. Saying that this is limited thinking is puzzling.

Power can be developed inside a closed system, of course. Just not excess power, or power beyond what is required to operate the system.

The earth? No I would say the earth IS an open system. For starters, the earth receives cosmic, sun, and other rays and particles which have profound effects on the atmosphere and environment in which we live. In addition, the ZPF is omni-present, and surely the earth intercepts and converts this energy into many if not all the complex processes that take place here. However, we have not yet learned how to reliably and intentionally intercept or convert this "dominant energy" (as Bob calls it) ourselves.

How can you have more power coming out of a system or device than going in if no outside energy enters this system? If you are producing energy above and beyond the input energy, where is the excess coming from? It can not just appear from nowhere, it MUST come from somewhere.

For all overunity devices or systems, the sole purpose of the closed system is to "perturb", "make connection to", "extract from", "tap into" the universal energy (a term I prefer). That is the only way to achieve overunity with a closed system; the excess energy must be added to it.

The closed system device is simply a means to the desired end...excess energy.

Darren

[navi-gator]

[SeaMonkey]

Navi-Gator and Darren,

Yours is a most interesting discussion. Please continue - it may prove to be greatly edifying to the forum at large.

Where there is hope and belief there will ultimately be found a new solution.

Many of the greatest discoveries which have had very large impact upon planet Earth were "accidents" of men (or women) who truly had no clue that what they were about to "discover" was declared to be "impossible" by the body of learned men who established the dogma of "science" in those times.

Has anything really changed?





One thing for certain; when it comes to "thinking" the community of science is definitely not a united one - thankfully. Without a "rogue" or two meaningful progress would certainly be diminished.

[navi-gator]

[z_p_e]

[navi-gator]

[z_p_e]

[navi-gator]

[z_p_e]