Ravi's Meyer Replication- Tap Water to H2

[FarrahDay]

[ravzz]

[FarrahDay]

[ravzz]

[FarrahDay]

[FarrahDay]

We have our 'wet electrolytic capacitor, then.

The next stage is to power it. Now it seems that more and more people are able to achieve 300% over Faraday, by pulsing, which is good, but not nearly enough to power an ICE without still requiring high power levels.

So what is the next stage?

Well I think the key to this is in the Bedini designs, particularly the use of a bifilar wound inductor coil. Radiant energy, more-out-than-in, in terms of power. Lawton's latest experiments with the bifilar inductor and his loading of the output seems to add much credibility to this. If in fact as he states, the current actually drops when adding extra load to the output, yet the his gas output appears to remain undiminished, then we must surely be nearly there.

If this is so, and the circuit does indeed draw additional energy from the environment ( ie. radiant energy), then adding further cells will not only reduce conventional power requirements further, but also allow increases of gas production at no cost.

I'm loving this stuff at present, as the possibilities are endless.

in case you have not see it, here is a link which you all might find interesting, if not downright useful.

http://www.theverylastpageoftheinternet ... mepump.htm

[Bob Boyce]

[glassGlow]

Quick question about the stainless steel tubes. How important is it to have seamless tubes? Could I use 304 welded or would that greatly reduce the hydrogen output?

Thanks!

[FarrahDay]

Not sure that it's an issue really, for now I'm using welded ss tubes as they are a lot cheaper.

If there is anything to the possible 'acoustic resonance' between the plates, then seamless, I would imagine, would fair better. It might be difficult to make the welded tubes resonate. A bit like how a nice piece of china 'rings' when you ping it with your finger, but a piece with a hairline crack in it does not. However, it may just mean they tune to different frequencies.

Though, I think the main thing is that the welding is not raised so as to cause a high spot.

Let's hope someone looking in can add a little something from actual experience.

[FarrahDay]

Rav

If you're looking in, I just wondered if you had done any calculating of capacitance of you tube set up, in order to theoretically determine L and res. Freq. to see how it compares to actual values.

I looked for your bifilar torroid pics, but couldn't locate them. I'm just about to experiment with a flat bifilar inductor coil. I am carefully winding an enammelled wire coil on a cd, from the centre to near the edge. This I'm doing on 2 cds which I will then lay on each other. The coils will be inductors that physically look like a capacitors two plates.

Have my ss tubes now, still awaiting my clear acrylic tube. Just to make things a little more interesting, my wfc setup will be a hybrid of Rav & Daves and Mr Boyces.

I'm using ss tubes, but I've also got floating tubes. My central electrode is a 8mm ss threaded bar. I then have 3 concentric tubes around this before my final (anode) tube.

Because all inner electrodes are a threaded bar, I can easily connect these together below the other tubes using a drilled ss plate and ss nuts.

All my anodes are bound together (hence in physical contact), so I only need one connecting wire to one anode.

Makes construction quite straight-forward. I will achieve a lot more surface area and hence capacitance than the two tube set up. Of course this is not to say that my results will be better, indeed as good or even if it will work at all. Time will tell.

[FarrahDay]

Its strange how you can read endless amounts on wfcs, many with conflicting details and non-sensical theories and mindless assumptions, until you become completely overwhelmed by it all.

Then just occasionally you read something (perhaps even something you had read many times before) that suddenly registers and unlocks a door. Something else 'clicks' into place.

Water as the dielectric was always my bug-bear of mine, as I never really thought this possible, or likely... tap water conducts. Then the importance of conditioning of the plates came to light more and more, and with it realisation that the conditioning was actually forming an insulating dielectric layer. Water is not the dielectric.

We have the capacitor now, with water being simply an all encompassing extension of the cathode. Next question then is, how exactly are we getting the water molecule to split and release its component gases?

If the oxide layer is an insulator, forming the capacitor, then it should opposed DC. AC, on the other, hand would pass to a lesser or greater degree, with the capacitor allowing far more current flow at higher frequencies than lower frequencies.

The thing is, we are not providing an AC signal to our capacitor (which is polarised), but rather DC pulses. The capacitor will charge from the DC pulses, so there will be a standing voltage across the dielectric, and as this leaks the pulses will keep topping the capacitor up.

However, this leakage current, will prevent the voltage reaching the 'stress' level needed to physically pull the water apart, unless we can top it up faster than it can leak.

I think that the small current flowing through the wfc is simply the natural dc leakage current of a 'wet electrolytic capacitor', and will likely happen all the time because of the pd across the dielectric. No amount of so-called 'amp consumimg devices' before the wfc will stop this. Only improving the dielectric layer will reduce this.

However, getting the right LC combination and pulse frequency will be critical in restricting current flow through the circuit.

Then, something I read here 'clicked'. http://peswiki.com/index.php/OS:Water_Fuel_Cell

If and when a DC pulse attains a certain level of potential difference across the oxide layer dielectric, then this dielectric layer (not the water) briefly, but catastrophically breaks down. The highly charged plates effectively short out across this dielectric layer. However, the current restricting LC combination won't allow this to happen fast enough. The electrical charges on the plates are unable to form an equilibrium and hence balance the plate charges from within the electrical circuit. Instead, other options are looked for. This being the water. The electrons are literally pulled off the water molecule, which then breaks up in order to meet or reduce the massive charge deficit on the plates.

When this happens, current through the circuit is not affected much, but a lot is happening to the water within the wfc.

That at least is how I'm rationalising the workings of a wfc ... so far.

Oh one thing about the water you use. Bear in mind that if you use deionised water in a wfc and don't use it regularly, the ss plates will corrode as the protecting oxide layer needs oxygen to be maintained. As it is, the cathode plate might corrode even in use with no free oxygen in the water.

[FarrahDay]

Not getting much in the way of responses from anyone, but at least I can use the forum to 'sound off' my thinking on the subject.

It seems that everyone with the necessary experience and understanding to discuss this with me, are being intimidated into silence.

However, from might point of view as the principles of operation become clearer, as the science becomes less mysterious so do the operational requirements.

At this stage, I'm not convinced by acoustic resonance within the ss tubes because I don't think this is neccesary for us to achieve our goal (though I'm not dismissing it).

Moreover, I'm not convinced that the inductor and wfc need to be in resonance - that is, not at the resonant frequency in terms of a series resonant LC circuit. At this point I actually think resonance of the LC combination would be detrimental to the operation of the wfc.

The inductor properties are what is important, as we need the inductor to
pose maximum opposition (reactance) to current flow in the cct, while charging the wfc. A normal inductor in this position, with the blocking diode incorporated, can only charge the wfc to twice the supply voltage, so not nearly enough unless you are using a large step up transformer before it.

However, according to Tesla a correctly wired bifilar coil can store thousands of times more energy than a standard inductor. Great, looks just the ticket.

But, this all leads me to another mystery. How are Dave and Rav achieving such good results (3x Faraday), from a low voltage supply, as surely there is nowhere near enough potential difference produced across the dielectric to cause it to breakdown? Is it due to partial breakdown of a very thin dielectric?

Just when you think you've got it all straight and figured out there's another spanner in the works!

Fascinating stuff though, and certainly worth staying with it and puzzling it all out.

[alexandre]

[kevinsatterfield]

[kevinsatterfield]

er is that the action of that dielectric layer...acting like a gate er someth'n?
Or when Mr.Meyers talked about it being like transistor tech and uses 3 tubes.....ya reckon he's use'n the center tube...ehhh i dunno..too tired.